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To: HarleyD

I believe that Paul was a special case; his experiences e.g. the Road to Damascus, the blinding, and the subsequent unblinding and change of heart suggest it. Plus the fact that he was able to go and teach the Gospels, albeit often somewhat apparently at odds with some of the teachings of the others, suggest even more strongly that he was special, in the same manner that all the Apostles were special.

We can find verses that might apply to all men, rather than a special case:

Acts 8:14-18
Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them and they received the holy Spirit. When Simon saw that the Spirit was conferred by the laying on of the apostles’ hands ...

Acts 19:1-6
While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior of the country and came (down) to Ephesus where he found some disciples. He said to them, “Did you receive the holy Spirit when you became believers?” They answered him, “We have never even heard that there is a holy Spirit.” He said, “How were you baptized?” They replied, “With the baptism of John.” Paul then said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid (his) hands on them, the holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.


This leads us to believe that we have the actions and the order of those actions correct.

The Apostles in the Acts of the Apostles appear to have understood the difference between the presence of the Holy Spirit in Baptism and in a later empowering. If a person were only baptized and did not receive the fullness of the Holy Spirit, the Apostles would pray and lay their hands on them, begging God to send his Holy Spirit in greater measure. Water Baptism is not the only time or way that the Holy Spirit comes to live in a person; but the New Testament indicates the importance of being baptized into Christ and thus being sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Roman Catholics believe that they are first born again of water and the Holy Spirit when they receive the sacrament of Baptism. Catholics also believe that Baptism only begins the work of mission of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer.

Mt 3:11
He (Jesus) will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire.
Mk 1:8
I (John) have baptized you with water; he (Jesus) will baptize you with the holy Spirit.
Lk 3:16
He (Jesus) will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire.
Jn 1:33
On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the holy Spirit.

The Roman Catholic Church has never claimed that the work of the Holy Spirit is limited exclusively to Baptism.

Confirmation is the Catholic Church’s official prayer for the Holy Spirit to empower a person to spread the gospel, to live a fervent Christian life, and share more fully in the mission and ministry of the Church.

Receiving the Holy Spirit in a new way, usually as the result of earnest, expectant prayer, is what many Christians today call being “baptized in the Holy Spirit.”

Being “baptized in the Holy Spirit” is actually a “release” or a “coming to consciousness” of the power of the Holy Spirit who already has been given to the believer through the sacraments of the Church.

We are in total agreement that the Holy Spirit opens one’s eyes and gives us the Grace of God in order to do what God wishes of us.


7,073 posted on 09/24/2007 7:09:13 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: MarkBsnr
I believe that Paul was a special case; his experiences e.g. the Road to Damascus, the blinding, and the subsequent unblinding and change of heart suggest it.

Plus the fact that he was able to go and teach the Gospels, albeit often somewhat apparently at odds with some of the teachings of the others, suggest even more strongly that he was special,

Acts 8:14-18...Acts 19:1-6...This leads us to believe that we have the actions and the order of those actions correct.

Confirmation is the Catholic Church’s official prayer for the Holy Spirit to empower a person to spread the gospel, to live a fervent Christian life, and share more fully in the mission and ministry of the Church....Being “baptized in the Holy Spirit” is actually a “release” or a “coming to consciousness” of the power of the Holy Spirit who already has been given to the believer through the sacraments of the Church.


7,077 posted on 09/24/2007 9:21:34 AM PDT by HarleyD
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