No, it was decided by God's actions. If our actions determine Heaven or hell, then you have to throw out a multitude of Biblical passages. Or, those passages can be pretzeled beyond all recognition.
Nearly every book of the NT discusses that our eternal end will be dependent upon our response to God's good graces through our actions.
But not dependent in the Apostolic sense. If someone does no works, then he is not saved into Heaven because he has not persevered. We disagree on who gets the pat on the back for our works. God or man. In addition, I "think" we disagree on whether there is one judgment or two. So, for you every works-based verse that mentions "judgment" is salvation vs. hell.
At the salvation judgment, I can just see God standing there and asking an Apostolic why He should let him into Heaven. Then, I presume, the Apostolic will try to list all the wonderful things he has done in his life and hope that it is enough to receive God's mercy and passage into Heaven. When it is my turn, I am simply going to point to my "Mouth", whose name is Jesus Christ. He will do all of my talking for me. BTW, that's always an option for you too, if you ever get stuck. :)
However, it doesn't follow that because God has given us every good gift, that we are not involved in a free will response to His commands.
The disagreement is over what "involved" means. To me it means that we are there to carry out God's works. I think the Apostolic would say that God gives us the tools to carry out our own works, and those who do that pleasingly enough (quality, quantity, or both) for God are the ones who get into Heaven. That is plainly an earned salvation. Let me ask this: if you do not believe in earned salvation through works, then how WOULD you describe a system that was indeed based on doing enough good deeds, and loving enough by some Godly measure, i.e. an earned salvation? I can't see any difference.
Loving itself is of course work in a real sense. If I do a job that I hate to feed my family I would think that I would get "love points" (for lack of a better term), and it would certainly be work to me. We cannot just say that acts of love are immune to being counted as work. Many times they are very hard, as the Bible tells us. How easy is it for us to love our friends, etc., we should love our enemies. I would assume your side would say that with everything else equal, the guy who does a better job at this will have the edge over the next guy for getting into Heaven. The first guy earned a higher "rating". How else could this work?
It is akin to receiving a vacuum for a present. Without it, I couldn't clean the floor. With it, I can choose to use it or not. I will not be able to go to God and say "Look, I cleaned the floor, I deserve something".
Why not? You say that you didn't do it to receive something, but out of pure love. That is fine. HOWEVER, are you not ALSO saying that this is EXACTLY what you will be judged on in order to get into Heaven? If so, then it comes out the same. Why should God let you into Heaven? Apostolics presumably are going to point to things like "vacuuming". :) We will not.
FK: "We humans need motivation and God uses different methods of accomplishing that. A large amount of that is contained in the encouragements and teachings we get in the Bible."
Which is exactly why we do not believe in Sola Scriptura. In two sentences, you have twice denied it.
Then it's a double negative and it all means that I supported Sola Scriptura once. :) I only meant that God reaches us through the Bible, and also in a more direct personal sense, through specific leading. God can also use specific people in certain circumstances for specific purposes, but none of this speaks to Sola Scriptura. I don't know what you're saying.
Problem is that we don't know who the true believers are...
You're right, but why is that a problem? All of us CAN know about ourselves, but no one else with absolute certainty. It is for THIS reason that we Reformers minister to the whole world instead of just a few on the list. This is God's plan.
I've known people who think they are true believers fall away and become atheists.
Yes, I'm sure we all have. So, we just keep right on ministering to them as God allows. No problem.
We place our hope in Christ and pray for our PERSEVERANCE! Thus, if one presumes that they already have a place in heaven for themselves, they are not a true believer.
Yes, we place our hope in Christ, and part of that hope is in that the words Christ spoke were true. If they were, then we are told that we may be sure of our salvation and have confidence in Him during our lives that He is good for His word. If He had spoken other words, then it may not have been part of God's plan that we could have assurance. But, fortunately for those who choose to take advantage of it, confidence and security are available to all believers.
God has freely given men free will to choose. That is how the Church reads the Scriptures as a whole. This does not mean that God bows out of the process. I believe Phil 2:12-13 is the best verse that describes that cooperation and interaction at the personal level.
So, for you every works-based verse that mentions "judgment" is salvation vs. hell.
No, I said that there are a few that discuss different levels of rewards, such as the parable of the talents. However, most of them ARE INDEED the difference between heaven and hell. Jesus Himself is pretty clear on that.
At the salvation judgment, I can just see God standing there and asking an Apostolic why He should let him into Heaven. Then, I presume, the Apostolic will try to list all the wonderful things he has done in his life and hope that it is enough to receive God's mercy and passage into Heaven. When it is my turn, I am simply going to point to my "Mouth", whose name is Jesus Christ. He will do all of my talking for me. BTW, that's always an option for you too, if you ever get stuck. :)
God's judgment of the individual is not based on what Jesus did on the cross, because HIS work was effective for ALL men. I have already listed for you over a dozen verses that show that Jesus died for ALL men, for ALL sins ever committed. If it was ALL Jesus and nothing of us, then, all men would be saved. If it is as you say, then WHAT determines why God goes AGAINST His own will that "all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth"? Revelation tells us that God is not a liar, so man MUST be part of the equation, part of WHY some men DO go to eternal damnation.
You cannot earn salvation, but you can lose it.
Loving itself is of course work in a real sense.
Your definition of "work" is not the biblical definition. A "work" is something you do for payment (Rom 4:4). We do not love for payment. Just the fact that you discuss "counting love works" shows that you are misunderstanding the whole point of love. Love doesn't "count" how many times you did "x" or how many times you sacrificed for the sake of the other.
You say that you didn't do it to receive something, but out of pure love. That is fine. HOWEVER, are you not ALSO saying that this is EXACTLY what you will be judged on in order to get into Heaven?
God uses our response to determine whether we actually believe Him, whether we trust Him, whether we love Him. Our response is measured by our actions, not by our words.
I only meant that God reaches us through the Bible, and also in a more direct personal sense, through specific leading. God can also use specific people in certain circumstances for specific purposes, but none of this speaks to Sola Scriptura. I don't know what you're saying.
Forget it, it's not on topic. I'll let you off the hook for now.
All of us CAN know about ourselves, but no one else with absolute certainty. It is for THIS reason that we Reformers minister to the whole world instead of just a few on the list. This is God's plan.
We can know about ourselves, but some thought will indicate that even THIS knowledge is not assured knowledge that we will enter heaven. It is GOD who makes such decisions, not our own self. You are making your own feelings of yourself the determinant on whether you are entering heaven and yet you hold to God's sovereignty? It sounds like YOU are determining whether you are going to heaven, not God.
And secondly, IF God has already decided on who will be saved, then your actions are meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Yes, we place our hope in Christ, and part of that hope is in that the words Christ spoke were true. If they were, then we are told that we may be sure of our salvation and have confidence in Him during our lives that He is good for His word.
And what is His Word? Believe in Him 20 years ago and you will enter heaven? I haven't found that quote yet. I HAVE found these, though...
And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Mat 10:22
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mat 24:13
It appears that Jesus desires that we believe in Him every day and to obey the Father's Will everyday to be saved. It seems that HE that endures will be saved. It doesn't say that "If Jesus endures to the end". God is not judged, man's endurance is judged. God provides the means to be saved for ALL men. But one must endure in Christ until the end to be saved. Naturally, God provides us with the Holy Spirit so that we may endure - but WE must endure, just the same. If man is not part of this equation, then it is God who is judged.
Regards