We don't have to pray for His will. "Thy will be done" is an affirmative statement, not hope or possibility, but a fact. It is our recognition of His sovereignty and our submission to Him (as Christians).
After the statement of submission, we petition God to give us our daily bread, to sustain us, to forgive us our sins and to lead us away from the evil one. Those are supplications, FK, and they are meaningful only if we believe that God guides us. If He pre-cast us into a given mold and given destiny, any prayer is a menaingless and empty, indeed pagan ritual. Given the Reformed theology of double predestination, any prayer is a mindless repetition, an empty ritual.
Isa 38:5 leaves no doubt that God intercedes in our lives and that everything is not pre-cast and stangnant.
Kosta: Prayer is not just praise, but supplication. You are asking for a favor.
FK: I agree. God tells us to bring our requests to Him.
How can you agree, FK, if you believe that everything is predetermined?!? What is the point of asking if nothing we ask will change what was cast before the foundations of the world? This is like praying in a movie theater for a specific end of a movie. It's superstition! Reformed theology says that everything is set and nothing can be changedfrom the way God designed it. If God is driving and we are just cattle in the back, you can pray all you want, the driver will take you where the driver wills. You can just sit back and moo.
(The whole idea that God would trat His children like cattle is the epitomy of Reformed self-debasing heresy).
However, remember that our own prayers as they are made are also a part of God's plan
That's because God wants us to come to Him. He doesn't force us to pray. The reformed idea that God forces some to be saved and forced others to be lost is contrary to a loving God. Love does not force. Rape is not love (sadly, some people may not understand that).
Why would God make His "elect" pray? For kicks and giggles? Because He can?
We don't have to pray for His will. "Thy will be done" is an affirmative statement, not hope or possibility, but a fact. It is our recognition of His sovereignty and our submission to Him (as Christians).
Well, that's fine but it is still prayer. Jesus commanded it. So, I hope this means that you now agree that not all parts of prayer are supplication.
If He pre-cast us into a given mold and given destiny, any prayer is a meaningless and empty, indeed pagan ritual. Given the Reformed theology of double predestination, any prayer is a mindless repetition, an empty ritual.
So prayer is only good if man has power over God? If God has all the power then prayer is a pagan ritual? That's an odd result.
Isa 38:5 leaves no doubt that God intercedes in our lives and that everything is not pre-cast and stagnant.
This is NOT God changing His mind. This is God carrying through with His plan that was already solidly in place. It only seems like a shift to us because we didn't know what direction He was going to go beforehand.
How can you agree, FK, if you believe that everything is predetermined?!? What is the point of asking if nothing we ask will change what was cast before the foundations of the world?
Why must the point be to change God's mind? For you, is the ONLY point of prayer to "get stuff"? Not for me. It is communication with God. I grow closer to Him whether I get what I ask for or not.
If God is driving and we are just cattle in the back, you can pray all you want, the driver will take you where the driver wills. You can just sit back and moo.
Actually, for us it's more like "Baaaaaahhhhhh". :)
(The whole idea that God would treat His children like cattle is the epitome of Reformed self-debasing heresy).
That is a key difference between Apostolics and Reformers. You see man as strong, self-sufficient, and powerful in his own right. You make the real choices because it is your right. In theosis you are the one who is important because you make the decision that matters most. We see man as totally dependent upon God. On our own we do not know what is good or best for us. God must lead us individually or we are lost.
The reformed idea that God forces some to be saved and forced others to be lost is contrary to a loving God. Love does not force. Rape is not love (sadly, some people may not understand that).
Here is a perfect illustration. I believe you have said that you have two beautiful daughters. When they were little, did you ever force them to do anything SOLELY because you loved them with all your heart? Of course you did. That's what God does with us.
Why would God make His "elect" pray? For kicks and giggles? Because He can?
Prayer glorifies God and sanctifies us. Are those worthy enough causes? :)