Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Gee, if he remembers Pius X (1835-1914), he must be pretty old!
1 posted on 08/27/2007 3:45:51 PM PDT by maryz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: Frank Sheed; sneakers; Bigg Red
These two forms of the Mass operate from very different theologies.

Interesting comment!

Bigg Red, from your comment on another thread, I thought you might have something to say about this! I don't mean to stalk you. Really! ;-)

2 posted on 08/27/2007 3:49:07 PM PDT by maryz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: maryz
"3. Does the Mass of Pius V help foster in the worshipper a sense of their own priesthood (per baptism) which enables them to offer the Mass with the priest (per ordination)?

Huh???

5 posted on 08/27/2007 5:46:48 PM PDT by sneakers (This Pennsylvania gal supports DUNCAN HUNTER for President!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: maryz
1. Does the Mass of Pius V give the worshipper a sense of God’s presence (the holy) among the worshippers gathered or is the “holy” only present on the altar?

I'm not sure how much more "among his worshippers" He's gonna get than on the altar, unless of course we process bearing the Lord on high. But at least in the Pian rite we know He's on the altar.

2. Does the Mass of Pius V give the worshipper a sense of being gathered together for corporate worship or private, personal devotion?

We're all kneeling together, along with the angels and the saints around the same re-presentation. How much more corporate can you be??

3. Does the Mass of Pius V help foster in the worshipper a sense of their own priesthood (per baptism) which enables them to offer the Mass with the priest (per ordination)?

"Assisting at the Mass" has always been understood to be the role everyone at the Mass besides the priest. Duh.

4. Does the Mass of Pius V promote in the worshipper a sense of God who is immersed in the world and their life, or a sense of God removed from the world and their life? A God removed from flesh or a God made flesh?

Is this one of those immanence/transcendence questions? Cause it sounds a lot like a pagan perspective on pantheism...

5. Does the Mass of Pius V help convey the bond of intimacy between God and his people intended by the covenant ritual or does it promote a sense of God’s aloofness from his people?

I'm not sure how much more intimate one can be with God than to see Him called down to the altar, raised on high, and adored. If you don't achieve a contemplative state in the Pian Mass, you aren't ready. This is the high point of the Pian Mass. It should be the high point of every Mass.

8 posted on 08/27/2007 6:59:23 PM PDT by WriteOn (Truth)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: maryz

The priest who wrote this is an idiot. Where was he when we were being treated to “clown Masses” during the 70s & 80s? Where was he when the number of people going to Holy Comunion was rising but the number of people who believed that Christ was truly present in the sacrament of the Altar was astronomically low? True or False: The Mass of Paul VI has given us more people attending Mass on Sunday, an active apostolate, increases in vocations to the priesthood and religious life? No, Father, your new-fangled Mass has seen the deconstruction of our Church which is just what Satan wanted. When the priest has his back to the people while praying the Canon of the Mass two things likely: 1. people realize that they are NOT the center of attention; God is and 2. the Mass is a re-enactment of the SACRIFICE of the Son in whom we are baptized to the Father. Why is this important? Because Christ came to be OUR sacrifice in atonement for our sins. We deserved death; Christ took the blows for us. That is what the Mass is. Of course in a world where sin no longer exists (hence no one goes to confession) then the Sacrifice of Christ to the Father on our behalf is irrelevant. Instead we only need Sunday pep rallies hosted by Father


9 posted on 08/28/2007 2:08:07 AM PDT by veritas2002
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: maryz

“with his back to the people” is about as fair of a description of the actual position (leading the people) as “turning against the people” is of facing the people.


10 posted on 08/28/2007 6:58:44 AM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: maryz
"Do we really want to go back?"

No, let's not go backwards, let's move forward with Holy Mother Church, with Pope Benedict XVI. Let's really go forward and leave "modernism" in the past where it belongs and enter the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with renewed reverence, attention, and devotion. The Mass of the Roman Rite in both its forms (Missal of 1962 & 1970) must be reverent, and not, as veritas2002 points out, "Sunday pep rallies hosted by Father". I think most "modernists" aren't so modern anymore (after all, isn't the average age of the modernist about 70--give or take a few years?). What I've seen is that the young people who come to Church want uncompromised truth and a radical sense of the sacred.

The Pope is calling for a continuity in the Tradition by encouraging both forms of the Roman Rite to be available and for them to mutually enrich one another. The Society of St. John Cantius has been doing this all along, thanks be to God!

By the way, as a priest since 2000 I can honestly say that both the priest and the people pray better and in deeper communion ad orientem, towards the East--towards God (regardless of the Missal or language used). That's not a theological argument--it's a simple fact.

12 posted on 08/28/2007 7:08:40 AM PDT by fr maximilian mary ("Imitate Jesus, love Mary as your Mother." Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: maryz
If the Novus Ordo is as clearly superior as Fr. Shelton believes, then nobody will "go back", right?

What's he afraid of and what am I missing?

25 posted on 08/29/2007 6:50:07 AM PDT by marshmallow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson