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I agree, but I think HD was referring to our doctrinal differences. Again, our doctrinal differences are not differences of belief but of definition. It is not that we believe in that Mary in not immaculate, but how she got to be that way; we do not deny the original sin, but what it means. There are ecclesial differences that are not doctrinal, such as the extent of papal jurisdiction (something actively discussed by both particular Churches as we write).

Correct kosta. To the Orthodox the idea of the infalibility of the Pope would be ecclesial. Thus the bishops and cardinals have given the Pope that right. Orthodoxs do not agree that the Pope has that right, certainly not to rule over them, and they see this strictly as an ecclesial issue.

Protestants believe Catholics issue the infallibility issue as a doctrinal statement and they specifically lay out a case for this in Vatican 1. Catholics have gone on record as saying the infalibility of the Pope comes directly from God-not bishops and cardinals and use the traditions of the Church to support their view (even referring to the Greek Church). Consequently Protestants view the statement from the Church as laid out in Vatican 1 not as ecclesical in nature but doctrinal. I would call your attention to Vatican 1:

Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable. Vatican 1

Seeing some of the new doctrines coming from the Pope about Mary, I am sure the Orthodoxs do not look at this as infallible. While Orthodox would simply roll their eyes and yawn, Protestants see this as a rather significant boo-boo. I would suggest the Orthodox normally give the Catholics far greater leyway then Protestants.

So I guess our question for our friend MarkBsnr is whether he considers Vatican 1 with respect to the infallibility of the Pope, ecclesial in nature and subject to change or if he considers it doctrine unable to be changed.

To the Orthodox the idea of the infalibility of the Pope would be ecclesial

HD, the Orthodox do not even entertain the idea that the Pope can be infallible, on doctrinal or ecclesial level. No Patriarch was ever considered infallible by the East.

The Orthodox do believe that the Church as a whole, as the Body of Christ, is protected from error and therefore inerrant (free of error) and infallible (incapable of error) and cannot be brought down by the gates of hell/Hades. [cf Mat 16:18]

Thus, when the Church meets in an ecumenical council, its proclamations are considered infallible because it is believed that the Holy Spirit guides the Church as a whole. Thus, when the pope proclaims dogma (not necessarily declares dogma!), it is infallible because it cannot be a dogma if it is not declared as dogma by an ecumenical council.

Vatican I changed all this, giving the Pope the ability to establish dogma without an ecumenical council, thereby acting as if he were the whole Church, or, more correctly, that his ministry encompasses the entire church (universal jurisdiction); in other words, the Pope is the Church and we subsist in the Church through and in him!

Needless to say, Vatican I did more to make any reunion with the Orthodox next to impossible than any other act of the Latin Church did in the past 1,000 years.

So, the issue of papacy is both doctrinal and ecclesial. the vast majority of Orthodox theologians do not consider Mat 16:18 a biblical establishment of papacy; ecumenical councils (such as those of Ephesus and Cahlcedon, 4th and 5th century) clearly state that papal primacy i given by the bishops because of the Imperial dignity of Old Rome.