Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: MHGinTN
One note: Joe Smith didn’t use the Urim and Thummim for the ‘translating’ of the supposed plates, he used his divination peepstone.

You mean like this?

Your observation certainly agrees with BoM "Witnesses" Harris and Cowdry.

But Joseph said he used Urim and Thummim.

And according to Smith's mother, Lucy Mack Smith:

That of which I spoke, which Joseph termed a key, was indeed, nothing more nor less than the Urim and Thummim, and it was by this that the angel showed him many things which he saw in vision; by which he could ascertain, at any time, the approach of danger, either to himself or the Record, and on account of which he always kept the Urim and Thummim about his person. (Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet and his Progenitors for Many Generations, page 106)

And Mother Smith said she got a good look at Urim and Thummim:

I knew not what he meant, but took the article of which he spoke into my hands, and, upon examination, found that it consisted of two smooth three-cornered diamonds set in glass, and the glasses were set in silver bows, which were connected with each other in much the same way as old fashioned spectacles. He took them again and left me, but said nothing respecting the Record. (Biographical Sketches, page 101)

Of course, still others believe Joseph plagiarized the Book of Mormon from OTHER SOURCES.

So, what did Joseph use? A peep stone, peep spectacles, or plagiary? I urge each reader of this posting to examine the evidence and make up his/her own mind.

260 posted on 02/14/2008 11:22:34 AM PST by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 258 | View Replies ]


To: Zakeet

Add to that, most of the supposed ‘translating’ didn’t even have the imagined ‘plates’ from which to ‘translate’ but the figures would supposedly appear in the hat with the peepstone in it. Smith was a pretty effective conman, if you think about it ... he’s still conning people who want to believe in his cons.


261 posted on 02/14/2008 11:32:31 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 260 | View Replies ]

To: Zakeet
 
I urge each reader of this posting to examine the evidence and make up his/her own mind.
 
Now you KNOW that THIS is the 'correct' way to do it!
 


THE BOOK OF MORONI
CHAPTER 10
 
A testimony of the Book of Mormon comes by the power of the Holy Ghost—The gifts of the Spirit are dispensed to the faithful—Spiritual gifts always accompany faith—Moroni’s words speak from the dust—Come unto Christ, be perfected in him, and sanctify your souls. About A.D. 421
 
1 Now I, Moroni, write somewhat as seemeth me good; and I write unto my brethren, the Lamanites; and I would that they should know that *more than four hundred and twenty years have passed away since the sign was given of the coming of Christ.
2 And I seal up these records, after I have spoken a few words by way of exhortation unto you.
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
 

 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 9
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet to Oliver Cowdery, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, April 1829. HC 1: 37–38. Oliver is admonished to be patient, and is urged to be content to write, for the time being, at the dictation of the translator, rather than to attempt to translate. 1–6, Other ancient records are yet to be translated; 7–14, The Book of Mormon is translated by study and by spiritual confirmation.
 
1 Behold, I say unto you, my son, that because you did not translate according to that which you desired of me, and did commence again to write for my servant, Joseph Smith, Jun., even so I would that ye should continue until you have finished this record, which I have entrusted unto him.
2 And then, behold, other records have I, that I will give unto you power that you may assist to translate.
3 Be patient, my son, for it is wisdom in me, and it is not expedient that you should translate at this present time.
4 Behold, the work which you are called to do is to write for my servant Joseph.
5 And, behold, it is because that you did not continue as you commenced, when you began to translate, that I have taken away this privilege from you.
6 Do not murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner.
7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.
8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must cask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.
10 Now, if you had known this you could have translated; nevertheless, it is not expedient that you should translate now.
11 Behold, it was expedient when you commenced; but you feared, and the time is past, and it is not expedient now;
12 For, do you not behold that I have given unto my servant Joseph sufficient strength, whereby it is made up? And neither of you have I condemned.
13 Do this thing which I have commanded you, and you shall prosper. Be faithful, and yield to no temptation.
14 Stand fast in the work wherewith I have called you, and a hair of your head shall not be lost, and you shall be lifted up at the last day. Amen.


--MormonDude(speechless: for once)

264 posted on 02/14/2008 12:35:46 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 260 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson