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To: sr4402

“Those outside of Christ have NO GOOD WORKS to follow them at the Great White Throne Judgment.”

You’re usng circular reasoning by defining in your last post, “GOOD WORKS”, as dephined in Ephesians. But, this is really not the thrust of your argument, so we can dispense with this and concede this point to get to your thrust below.

“Therefore, there is utterly, no Free Will available for those outside of Christ to do any good works.”

As in your restrictive definition, yet there is still free will to choose the Truth of God and his plan for salvation. For He so loved the world that he sent His Son to give the Good News to all the world.

“Thus you must admit that man’s Free Will would be heavily restricted and Free Will not totally Free.”

Absolutely not. A few examples of God’s intervention do not restrict Man’s will to choose The Way. You can’t prove this biblically, nowhere is it stated.

You seem like a true seeker and I bid you peace, but please read Romans again for perspective. Your use of Romans is not the intent of Paul. In his letter, he is seeking to put to rest the claim of Jewish Christians, who insist Gentiles obey the old “law” of circumcision. But Paul makes it clear that there is a New Covenant now for all of the world. The whole intent is to give the plan of salvation to the entire world.

So, there is irony in using Romans to make a claim that our loving God would preselect those who can or cannot attain salvation. Because through Divine Revelation in Romans Our Lord is opening up His plan of salvation all that accept Him and His Plan. Pray on these things and use this holy week leading up to Easter to explore all of Romans and also the Gospel


40 posted on 03/19/2008 2:34:10 PM PDT by rbmillerjr ("bigger government means constricting freedom"....................RWR)
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To: rbmillerjr
So, there is irony in using Romans to make a claim that our loving God would preselect those who can or cannot attain salvation. Because through Divine Revelation in Romans Our Lord is opening up His plan of salvation all that accept Him and His Plan. Pray on these things and use this holy week leading up to Easter to explore all of Romans and also the Gospel

I love how Arminians assume Calvinists are not well-studied on these issues. Most Calvinists have studied longer or harder than the average Arminian.

Most Calvinists were ardent Arminians to begin with, therefore we know of what we speak.

41 posted on 03/19/2008 2:37:48 PM PDT by streetpreacher (Arminian by birth, Calvinist by the grace of God)
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To: rbmillerjr
Absolutely not. A few examples of God’s intervention do not restrict Man’s will to choose The Way. You can’t prove this biblically, nowhere is it stated.

You are correct that God does not restrict in any way, but Romans 3:11 shows that man is incapable: "There is none who understands, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD".

If there is none who seeks for God, in Mankind, then the logical question is "What then makes it possible for anyone seek for God?", then the answer must be God's intervention and help.

The Doctrine of Free Will assumes that the effects of Adam's fall is not devastating upon his will and that his will is still spiritually alive. Whereas the Scriptures consistently teach that mankind, apart from Christ, is completely and spiritually "Dead in Trespasses and Sin".

Thus the doctrine of Free Will underestimates the destructiveness of Adam's Fall and the power of Sin upon mankind.

It is therefore, all the more remarkable, that Christ, while we were yet, dead in trespasses and sin, unlistening, unseeing and unable to move toward Him... Died upon the Cross (ON Good Friday) for Spiritually useless folks like you and I, and Arose on Resurrection Sunday, proving He has the power to Resurrect both the Physically and Spiritually dead people that folks like us were.

Blessed be His Name: The Lord Jesus Christ.

42 posted on 03/20/2008 3:53:51 AM PDT by sr4402
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