Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Is Mary Worthy of Worship?
Forerunner ^ | June 2003 | David Grabbe

Posted on 04/12/2008 7:19:29 AM PDT by DouglasKC

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 321-328 next last
To: papertyger

So here we have a very important essential practice which all the Apostles in writing the foundational documents of the Church simply forgot about.

Goodness, thanks be to God that there’s a human institution still around conveying tradition to correct them! /s


161 posted on 04/12/2008 12:27:05 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 158 | View Replies]

To: Petronski

Christianity has always maintained the Old Testament is every bit God’s Word as the New Testament. One cannot understand one without the other.

“The New Testament is in the Old concealed, as the Old is in the New revealed.”


162 posted on 04/12/2008 12:31:15 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns
So here we have a very important essential practice which all the Apostles in writing the foundational documents of the Church simply forgot about.

What "forget?" They got the message across. They just didn't write it down.

If you're taking the position that only that which is written is God's word, or that the Apostles wrote down everything they did with regard to "faith and practice," you've got a tough hill of logic to climb.

163 posted on 04/12/2008 12:38:05 PM PDT by papertyger (The left fosters lawlessness & bad culture by denying the legitimacy of the law and Western culture.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]

To: joseph20

The article was so full of bovine waste I gave up reading the whole thing. You and I and all faithful Catholics know we do not give Mary the glory and honor due to God alone. But try explaining to a Protestant the difference between Latria, Hyperdulia and Dulia will only make you want to snap your own arm off.

And let us not forget that Orthodox and Catholic and perhaps some Anglicans truly have what you and I consider worship. Which is the sacrifice of the Mass or the Divine Liturgy. Protestant worship is a very worthy assembly of Christians brought together to praise, glorify, honor and rejoice in the Lord. But it is not what Catholics would define as Worship. They also have no concept of Worship in Catholic/Orthodox meaning. They have what we term the Liturgy of The Word without the Liturgy of The Eucharist.

The outright libels that some Protestants post against the Catholic faith have truly become almost laughable in their claims.


164 posted on 04/12/2008 12:45:11 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: thefrankbaum

You can find a mix of what you and I both would agree are orthodox and erroneous beliefs and teachings in the Church Fathers. Although heroic and true saints, blessing us with some wonderful words of wisdom, Irenaus, Turtullian, Origen, etc. all had certain other beliefs and teachings which Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant all agree were not correct.

Most of those erroneous beliefs were later caught and expunged by the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If you can prove something counter-biblical that they taught, that your church still teaches, so what? It just means that the church still needs reforming, and conformance to God’s holy Word.

One cannot logically say a practice has been around “since the very beginning” unless one can prove it in the record of the 1st generation of the Church, from the mouths of the Apostles themselves, that is, in scripture.

In the very verse you quoted me, God tells us what Jesus’ role is for us today: “Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant,” which is why we pray through Christ alone, but there is utterly no proof there that “the spirits of the just made perfect” are omni-present as God only is, hearing the prayers of the saints on earth.


165 posted on 04/12/2008 12:47:57 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

Talk about a catch-22 question.

If we say ‘yes’ that proves the Protestant point. Which by the way, we don’t “worship” Mary, we do VENERATE her.

If we say ‘no’, the the Protestants can say — “Oh, you don’t think Mary, the Mother of God, is important, eh?

And you know that’s not true.

It’s a sham post in my estimation.


166 posted on 04/12/2008 12:49:07 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wintertime

**I’d feel much more confident about the future of our nation if Catholics would really BE Catholic. ( That includes all of our Catholic legislators.)**

We would feel much better too.

Those legislators are dissenting from their faith. We call them CINOs.


167 posted on 04/12/2008 12:51:01 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

Catholics do not worship Mary. Only one who did not do even the most basic research of the Doctrines of the Catholic Church would believe this nonsense.


168 posted on 04/12/2008 12:53:28 PM PDT by rwlawrence
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: thefrankbaum
Since Mary is the greatest of all His creation

*blink* *blink* WHAT?

169 posted on 04/12/2008 12:53:37 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: FormerLib
So she carried Him in her womb and gave birth to Him but the Roman Catholics cannot apply the term "Mother" to her for doing this?

Do you believe Mary was the egg-donor or just the surrogate?

170 posted on 04/12/2008 12:53:41 PM PDT by mngran2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 110 | View Replies]

To: roamer_1

What? How is she not? Have you borne God lately? :-P


171 posted on 04/12/2008 12:55:23 PM PDT by thefrankbaum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns

I am an atheist. But even I can see that you aren’t being fair or logical in your insistence that Catholics worship Mary.


172 posted on 04/12/2008 12:57:51 PM PDT by tokenatheist (Can I play with madness?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies]

To: wmfights

Yup, it would...and is.


173 posted on 04/12/2008 1:02:58 PM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 141 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns
No, I don't believe that I am mistaken about this at all. How many people go to the grave site of a loved one, and pray to them? Many do. Normally, it would begin by saying something along the lines of "I know you are up there..."

Indeed, at the funeral, the pastor and the entire congregation will pray on behalf of the person that has passed away...they will ask Jesus to take his soul to heaven.

How many ordinary protestants say prayers, as a source of comfort, to loved ones "up in heaven"? It's a very common thing. I can't believe that you would try to deny this!

A) Praying to a person in Heaven is common, by both Protestants and Catholics.
B) Asking someone to pray for you is done, by both Protestants and Catholics.
C) Therefore, asking someone in Heaven to pray for you is a logical joining of the above A and B.

Can you show doctrine from the major Protestant churches that disallow asking people in Heaven to pray for you?
174 posted on 04/12/2008 1:04:17 PM PDT by joseph20 (...to ourselves and our Posterity...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns
If you can prove something counter-biblical that they taught, that your church still teaches, so what?

Ay, there's the rub. I read the Bible, and see that Christians should all pray for each other. I read the Bible, and see that we should not try and raise the dead. I read the Bible, and see that those who believe in Christ are granted Eternal Life, and are thus not dead. They continue to believe in Christ (moreso than you and I can - they are with Him) and are part of the Mystical Body of Christ. I don't know the physics of Heaven or how exactly Heaven can see/hear us - I do know the Psalmist cried to Heaven and told/asked the Angels to praise God. I read the Bible, and see that the prayers of holy people are especially powerful. Taking all this together, I can know these things:

  1. Heaven can hear the cries/prayers of those of us on Earth.
  2. People who have "died" in Christ are granted Eternal life and are in Heaven.
  3. Believers are told to pray for each other.
  4. The prayers of holy people are especially effective.

Thus, I ask the Saints in Heaven to pray for me. I know they have no power of their own - it is all done through God. None of this is counter-biblical - it is not explicitly spelled out in the Bible, the logical train is there. God graced us with reason - we are meant to use it.

175 posted on 04/12/2008 1:06:47 PM PDT by thefrankbaum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: mngran2
Do you believe Mary was the egg-donor or just the surrogate?

Are you asking me if I believe Jesus was Human at all?

Geez, does that sound like Arianism or was that one of the other ancient heresies rejected by the Church?

If Mary was not His mother, everyone who called Him "Son of David" was deluded!!!

176 posted on 04/12/2008 1:07:14 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns
...why not a word about it in the New Testament?

The New Testament tells us that it does not even contain all of the words or actions of Jesus Himself and you think what it does not mention proves something?

Does that mean that the words of Jesus not recorded were never spoken then? Yes or no?

177 posted on 04/12/2008 1:09:45 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: thefrankbaum
How is she not?

Sheer speculation, and without reference.

Have you borne God lately?

So?

178 posted on 04/12/2008 1:12:28 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: thefrankbaum

Who was it that pointed out that we seem to be arguing with Nestorians?


179 posted on 04/12/2008 1:18:24 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns
Certain Anglo-Catholics pray to saints, however, they would also vigorously deny being Protestant. Other Anglicans and perhaps some Lutherans would pray for the dead, however, that is quite different than praying to them.

You've been paying attention!

180 posted on 04/12/2008 1:23:48 PM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 321-328 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson