Posted on 04/12/2008 7:19:29 AM PDT by DouglasKC
So here we have a very important essential practice which all the Apostles in writing the foundational documents of the Church simply forgot about.
Goodness, thanks be to God that there’s a human institution still around conveying tradition to correct them! /s
Christianity has always maintained the Old Testament is every bit God’s Word as the New Testament. One cannot understand one without the other.
“The New Testament is in the Old concealed, as the Old is in the New revealed.”
What "forget?" They got the message across. They just didn't write it down.
If you're taking the position that only that which is written is God's word, or that the Apostles wrote down everything they did with regard to "faith and practice," you've got a tough hill of logic to climb.
The article was so full of bovine waste I gave up reading the whole thing. You and I and all faithful Catholics know we do not give Mary the glory and honor due to God alone. But try explaining to a Protestant the difference between Latria, Hyperdulia and Dulia will only make you want to snap your own arm off.
And let us not forget that Orthodox and Catholic and perhaps some Anglicans truly have what you and I consider worship. Which is the sacrifice of the Mass or the Divine Liturgy. Protestant worship is a very worthy assembly of Christians brought together to praise, glorify, honor and rejoice in the Lord. But it is not what Catholics would define as Worship. They also have no concept of Worship in Catholic/Orthodox meaning. They have what we term the Liturgy of The Word without the Liturgy of The Eucharist.
The outright libels that some Protestants post against the Catholic faith have truly become almost laughable in their claims.
You can find a mix of what you and I both would agree are orthodox and erroneous beliefs and teachings in the Church Fathers. Although heroic and true saints, blessing us with some wonderful words of wisdom, Irenaus, Turtullian, Origen, etc. all had certain other beliefs and teachings which Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant all agree were not correct.
Most of those erroneous beliefs were later caught and expunged by the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If you can prove something counter-biblical that they taught, that your church still teaches, so what? It just means that the church still needs reforming, and conformance to God’s holy Word.
One cannot logically say a practice has been around “since the very beginning” unless one can prove it in the record of the 1st generation of the Church, from the mouths of the Apostles themselves, that is, in scripture.
In the very verse you quoted me, God tells us what Jesus’ role is for us today: “Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant,” which is why we pray through Christ alone, but there is utterly no proof there that “the spirits of the just made perfect” are omni-present as God only is, hearing the prayers of the saints on earth.
Talk about a catch-22 question.
If we say ‘yes’ that proves the Protestant point. Which by the way, we don’t “worship” Mary, we do VENERATE her.
If we say ‘no’, the the Protestants can say — “Oh, you don’t think Mary, the Mother of God, is important, eh?
And you know that’s not true.
It’s a sham post in my estimation.
**I’d feel much more confident about the future of our nation if Catholics would really BE Catholic. ( That includes all of our Catholic legislators.)**
We would feel much better too.
Those legislators are dissenting from their faith. We call them CINOs.
Catholics do not worship Mary. Only one who did not do even the most basic research of the Doctrines of the Catholic Church would believe this nonsense.
*blink* *blink* WHAT?
Do you believe Mary was the egg-donor or just the surrogate?
What? How is she not? Have you borne God lately? :-P
I am an atheist. But even I can see that you aren’t being fair or logical in your insistence that Catholics worship Mary.
Yup, it would...and is.
Ay, there's the rub. I read the Bible, and see that Christians should all pray for each other. I read the Bible, and see that we should not try and raise the dead. I read the Bible, and see that those who believe in Christ are granted Eternal Life, and are thus not dead. They continue to believe in Christ (moreso than you and I can - they are with Him) and are part of the Mystical Body of Christ. I don't know the physics of Heaven or how exactly Heaven can see/hear us - I do know the Psalmist cried to Heaven and told/asked the Angels to praise God. I read the Bible, and see that the prayers of holy people are especially powerful. Taking all this together, I can know these things:
Thus, I ask the Saints in Heaven to pray for me. I know they have no power of their own - it is all done through God. None of this is counter-biblical - it is not explicitly spelled out in the Bible, the logical train is there. God graced us with reason - we are meant to use it.
Are you asking me if I believe Jesus was Human at all?
Geez, does that sound like Arianism or was that one of the other ancient heresies rejected by the Church?
If Mary was not His mother, everyone who called Him "Son of David" was deluded!!!
The New Testament tells us that it does not even contain all of the words or actions of Jesus Himself and you think what it does not mention proves something?
Does that mean that the words of Jesus not recorded were never spoken then? Yes or no?
Sheer speculation, and without reference.
Have you borne God lately?
So?
Who was it that pointed out that we seem to be arguing with Nestorians?
You've been paying attention!
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