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To: notaliberal

The will of the Lord? If Christ were preaching today, you really think he would advocate treating women, or anyone, as second class citizens? His treatment of women and other subjugated people was remarkably advanced in its time. Why would you think it would be so backward now?


12 posted on 04/28/2008 7:40:08 AM PDT by TraditionalistMommy
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To: TraditionalistMommy
It isn't about treating anyone as "second-class citizens." Christ is the Bridegroom, the Church is the Bride. The priest is a symbol of that relationship. That is why a woman cannot fulfill that roll.

That being said, your language is ripped right out of the playbook of the women's ordination movement. You may claim to be a "traditionalist," but, at least on this issue, you've exposed yourself as anything but.

13 posted on 04/28/2008 7:45:34 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If the angels could be jealous of men, they would be so for one reason: Holy Communion." -M. Kolbe)
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To: TraditionalistMommy

The Bible is pretty clear on the roles that the sexes were created with.

It’s not about 1st class vs 2nd class, it’s about proper role fulfillment.

When you attempt to use something, anything, for other than its intended purpose, something is going to break.


16 posted on 04/28/2008 7:49:03 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: TraditionalistMommy

What Christ preached two thousand years ago would be the same today. Christ does not change. He is always correct.


20 posted on 04/28/2008 7:59:48 AM PDT by RexBeach
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To: TraditionalistMommy
The will of the Lord? If Christ were preaching today, you really think he would advocate treating women, or anyone, as second class citizens? His treatment of women and other subjugated people was remarkably advanced in its time. Why would you think it would be so backward now?

I'm not a Catholic. You think Jesus would have modified His Message because of the times? His treatment of women would have been the same today as it was then, because the way the Lord treated people is the way people should treat one another.

43 posted on 04/28/2008 8:45:27 AM PDT by xone
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To: TraditionalistMommy
If Christ were preaching today, you really think he would advocate treating women, or anyone, as second class citizens?

Ordination is not a right, it is not something anyone can demand, and the lack of ordination does not make anyone a "second-class citizen".

But if you're a Catholic, it should be sufficient for you that the Church's inability to ordain women was infallibly taught by Pope John Paul II. That means it will never change. Not in your lifetime, not in your children's lifetime, not 10,000 years from now.

50 posted on 04/28/2008 9:01:48 AM PDT by Campion
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To: TraditionalistMommy

Women in The Church are NOT second-class, try telling that to the Nuns I know! furthermore, the act of celebrating mass is of a community. By not having women as celebrants, in no way signifies that they are not the equals of men


98 posted on 04/28/2008 10:16:20 AM PDT by Cronos ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" - Omar Ahmed, CAIR)
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To: TraditionalistMommy
“Persona Christi Capitis
Person of Christ the Head”
Pope John Paul II

“Only by having a deep knowledge of the Person and work of Jesus Christ is the priest able to understand his own identity. John Paul says, “the priest finds the full truth of his identity in being a derivation, a specific participation in and continuation of Christ himself, the one high priest of the new and eternal covenant. The priest is a living and transparent image of Christ the priest…”

“…A priest is set between God and man. Now he needs someone between himself and God, who of himself cannot approach to God; and such a one is subject to the priesthood by sharing in the effect thereof. But this cannot be said of Christ; for the Apostle says (Heb. vii. 25): Coming of Himself to God, always living to make intercession for us…And therefore it is not fitting for Christ to be the recipient of the effect of His priesthood, but rather to communicate it to others. For the influence of the first agent in every genus is such that it receives nothing in that genus: thus the sun gives but does not receive light…Now Christ is the fountain-head of the entire priesthood: for the priest of the Old Law was a figure of Him; while the priest of the New Law works in his person, according to 2 Cor. ii. 10: For what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned anything, for your sakes have I done in the person of Christ.”

And as Father Levis concludes:

“In conclusion the following written by Fr. Robert J. Levis, of Erie, PA on 09-10-2003:

Celibacy will remain a characteristic of the Western Priesthood for the following reasons: 1. The priest is considered a groom, like Christ the Groom, married to the whole Church. This is an ancient patriarchal notion and a good one. This Christian union is monogamous, one husband with one wife. The priest's wife is his people whom he serves without counting the effort.

2. The vocation of the priest is to stand in the person of Christ who was celibacy throughout his whole life.

3. The primary purpose of marriage is the rearing and training of children, an enormous task. An essential duty of the priest is to administer the Sacraments most especially the Holy Eucharist, a most solemn duty which requires a detached life, much solitary prayer, and training for homiletic work.

4. The priest is considered the “sexless one”, the man to whom all, men and women, may come in complete freedom and openness with their counseling problems. Any woman can see the priest who is not some woman's husband, which is a freedom for her and an advantage for the independent priest.

5. Imagine the costs of providing for a priest and his non-conceptive family, a real practical consideration in these times. God bless.

—Fr. Bob Levis”

If you have a family, how many collections would you need to put food in the table and gas in your vehicle?

176 posted on 04/28/2008 12:13:21 PM PDT by franky1
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To: TraditionalistMommy
The will of the Lord? If Christ were preaching today, you really think he would advocate treating women, or anyone, as second class citizens?

It's advisable not to question the will of the Lord. He chose 12 men! Do you think you can do better than Jesus Christ?

177 posted on 04/28/2008 12:28:53 PM PDT by notaliberal (Christ Our Hope!)
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To: TraditionalistMommy

You’re missing the point. Christ didn’t arrive on the earth at this time. He showed up 2,000 years ago. Man can speculate all he wants about what Christ would do if He had appeared on Earth for the first time right now, but it is irrelevant. He must have chose the time He chose for a very good reason.


186 posted on 04/28/2008 1:10:44 PM PDT by BaBaStooey ("Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light." Ephesians 5:14)
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To: TraditionalistMommy

Hi, As a child, I thought it was terribly unfair that the boys got to go beyond the altar rail and us girls were denied that.
When I gave birth to my first child, I cried for my husband, as he would never know or experience the joy and beauty I had in sharing in creation with Our Lord.

We are mothers. They are fathers!

We all have our places and all are equal, only different.

Please don’t try and make the sexes the same. We aren’t


208 posted on 04/28/2008 6:37:06 PM PDT by mckenzie7 (Lib NO MORE!)
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