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Why Evangelicals are Returning to Rome
CIC ^ | April 2008 | Bob DeWaay

Posted on 05/02/2008 2:09:51 PM PDT by Augustinian monk

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To: XeniaSt

GSN-5487 correction


181 posted on 05/03/2008 1:20:34 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: mike182d
Most likely, but the very next generation after Thomas arrived in India was definitely into the "reincarnation" thing.

We can only imagine how other apostles' messages were slightly modified.

182 posted on 05/03/2008 1:21:02 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: XeniaSt

Thank you, but I was pointing out that the examples she cited did not involve “Kecharitomene.”


183 posted on 05/03/2008 1:23:30 PM PDT by Petronski (When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth, voting for Hillary.)
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To: Petronski; Augustinian monk; Manfred the Wonder Dawg; suzyjaruki; blue-duncan; Lord_Calvinus; ...
None of those say "filled with grace"

Sure they do -- many, many times.

Deny the grace of God in those who are His all you want.

That error could well be what Christ is describing as the "unpardonable sin."

"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." -- Matthew 12:32

"Danger, Will Robinson."

184 posted on 05/03/2008 1:24:20 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Sure they do -- many, many times.

You cited four passages from Scripture. None of them say "filled with grace."

Deny the grace of God in those who are His all you want.

I did not do that. You bear false witness against me with stunning proficiency.

185 posted on 05/03/2008 1:30:42 PM PDT by Petronski (When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth, voting for Hillary.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Gabriel said, " And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee" - not Hail, full of grace. The word is a perfect participle - showing she was a recipient of grace ie - "favored".

And not a bestower of grace. The context also prohibits this.

Eph. 1:6 is the only other use of this word in the NT, and is there rendered to mean, "made acceptable".

You do know the difference between grace, holiness and sinlessness? Mary received grace, but was not sinless as a human.

They are quite different.

Amen.

Adding further insult to the young woman God graced to bear the Christ child, the RCC labels Mary as the "Co-Redeemer" and "Dispensatrix of all Grace."

Along with viewing RC priests as "another Christ," that is as close to blasphemy as I've ever read or heard.

186 posted on 05/03/2008 1:31:41 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg
You didn't find the exact name "Roman Catholic Church". Is that your complaint?

Jesus transferred His authority into Peter and the Church. He gave the "keys to the kingdom of heaven" to Peter and the Church. This is how the Catholic Church derives its authority. It was transferred from Jesus himself.

Or, do you think Jesus really meant to transfer all His authority into Rev. Timothy Lovejoy's First Church of Springfield?

Unlike the multitude of "churches" that have popped into and out of existence across the years, the Catholic Church actually traces its history back to Peter himself.
187 posted on 05/03/2008 1:32:48 PM PDT by joseph20 (...to ourselves and our Posterity...)
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To: XeniaSt
The same Greek construction of Luke 1:28 also occurs in Ephesians 1:6 and Sirach 18:17

verb indicative aorist active 3rd person singular

AMEN!

188 posted on 05/03/2008 1:33:15 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Petronski

Are you “filled with grace,” Petronski?


189 posted on 05/03/2008 1:34:28 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

The appropriate question is, has an Archangel of the Lord appeared to me and told me that I am full of grace?

No.


190 posted on 05/03/2008 1:36:30 PM PDT by Petronski (When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth, voting for Hillary.)
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To: joseph20

Similarly, North America existed long before someone decided to call it North America.


191 posted on 05/03/2008 1:38:05 PM PDT by Petronski (When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth, voting for Hillary.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
XS>The same Greek construction of Luke 1:28 also occurs in Ephesians 1:6 and Sirach 18:17

verb indicative aorist active 3rd person singular

AMEN!

It is really lame to try to build theology on the English translation .
b'SHEM Yah'shua

DRA Sirach 18:17 Lo, is not a word better than a gift? but both are with a justified man.

192 posted on 05/03/2008 1:39:13 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: joseph20
Jesus transferred His authority into Peter and the Church.

Nope. Jesus maintains all authority over His church, as Paul tells us...

"And he (Jesus) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." -- Colossians 1:18

The apostles had no successors for to succeed them one needed to be a witness of Christ's resurrection...

Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection." -- Acts 1:21,22


193 posted on 05/03/2008 1:43:35 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Petronski

***I know you’ll enjoy reading this.***

I am and thank you for the notification.

***What was shocking about the article was that both the author of the article and the senior managing editor of CT claim that this trip back to Rome is a good thing.***

Shocking that the word of Jesus is, well, true.

***To endorse a trip back to these practices of ancient Roman Catholicism is to reject the principle of sola scriptura being the normative authority for the beliefs and practices of the church.***

I think that the truth is, to a certain extent, getting through. And is scaring Reformers who possess grey matter.

***If we examine them closely we will find evidence that sola scriptura has been abandoned as a governing principle—if not formally, at least in practice. ***

May the Name of Jesus be praised.

***But what does this do to sola scriptura? It negates it.***

As does the Bible.

***But why are literate American Christians running away from sola scriptura at a time when searching the Scriptures (especially using computer technology) has never been easier? ***

Because the Bible itself repudiates it.

***I urge my fellow evangelicals to seriously consider the consequences of rejecting sola scriptura as the formal principle of our theology.***

You may wind up with eternal salvation with God in Heaven.


194 posted on 05/03/2008 1:45:37 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: XeniaSt
The same Greek construction of Luke 1:28 also occurs in Ephesians 1:6 and Sirach 18:17 verb indicative aorist active 3rd person singular GSN-5467

Luke 1:28 uses the perfect past participle, "Kecharitomene."

195 posted on 05/03/2008 1:46:13 PM PDT by Petronski (When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth, voting for Hillary.)
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To: Petronski
The word of God tells us it is by the indwelling Holy Spirit that we know we are filled with grace.

So, are you "filled with grace," or not? It's not a trick question.

Any Christian should be able to answer it straight-away.

196 posted on 05/03/2008 1:47:17 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: sean327

***Whatever floats your boat big guy, but the last I checked we are just as much Christians as Baptists or what ever other Protestant denomination you want to name.***

In my ever so humble opinion, we are the Christians. Splitters and quitters don’t get to make the rules or call the shots.


197 posted on 05/03/2008 1:47:33 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Along with viewing RC priests as "another Christ," that is as close to blasphemy as I've ever read or heard.

You continue to use that metaphor as a bludgeon, and in doing so, speak volumes about your intellectual honesty.

198 posted on 05/03/2008 1:48:45 PM PDT by Petronski (When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth, voting for Hillary.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

“The Roman Catholic Church has tangibility”

Why not the Eastern Orthodox....I think they have more tangeability to claim to be “Christ’s Church” than the Vatican does?!


199 posted on 05/03/2008 1:49:22 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: MarkBsnr
Because the Bible itself repudiates it.

Where does the Bible "repudiate" sola scriptura?

The word of God repudiates the doctrines of men and the "vain janglings" of tradition.

200 posted on 05/03/2008 1:50:26 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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