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To: wagglebee
To muddy the waters: I said that sinners are not fully human. I mean that we are not as God intended us to be.

For example, because of concupiscence, a big chunk of our energy is spent resisting impulses to intemperance or whatever. That is energy we could have used for thought or prayer or concentration generally. And concupiscence is strong enough that we make lousy choices, yielding our "subjective principle of volition" (Kant) to desire without consideration of the outcome or the relationship between the particular act and our lives as a whole. That's not what God had in mind, I suggest. So we are not fully human.

Mary is without sin, therefore she is fully human. It is not wrong to say she is "perfect" in that limited respect.

It IS wrong to say she is absolutely perfect. A sinless baby would be, with respect to being a baby, perfect. But she still has to learn to walk, talk, and do other age appropriate stuff. The thought experiment "perfect baby" still has further perfection to gain. "perfect" is a word that has to be used carefully, I think and with an awareness of nuance.

Slash and burn theologians will use it poorly.

10,190 posted on 06/30/2008 6:58:54 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
What's that? You misspoke?

HOORAY! FRESH BLUDGEONS!

</MouthBreathingAnti-CatholicBigot>

10,193 posted on 06/30/2008 7:05:19 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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