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To: MarkBsnr
“No church is autonomous”

Yes, Biblical churches are autonomous from man-made hierarchies and denominations.

” - all churches are under the authority of the bishop appointed by God. Do these churches have a bishop?”

All of these churches have their own bishop (1 Timothy ch. 3), and deacons. And they have other pastors and teachers (Ephesians 4) as well. And these bishops were called and placed there by God, and it is very obvious to the members of those churches that it is so.

“The seal is a mark of God; the seal of the beast is also a mark. No guarantees; we have the ability to walk away from Christ; we have, with God’s Grace, the ability to walk away from the beast.” (MarkBsnr)

As long as we all know what you believe. We understand that that is what the Catholic Church has taught you, but we disagree that it has anything to do with Biblical Truth. There is nothing in 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30 (etc.) that indicates the seal can be broken, and actually, it appears quite to the contrary.

“The One Church stays and watches the others come and go.”

But that one doesn't matter, it is merely a visible earthly organization of political religionists in our view, and since we are partakers of Christ Himself, personally and in reality, once-and-forever, we don't need such a church that might try to wrongly teach us that the seal with which the Holy Ghost hath sealed us can be broken.

And actually, perpetuity (IF someone is looking for something visible all the time) of doctrine and practice since the Apostolic days, can be found in a dozen movements of Christians, all of whom could make the same claim as Rome, but alas, they never went into political kingdom building.

6,355 posted on 06/16/2008 10:16:27 PM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: John Leland 1789

***Yes, Biblical churches are autonomous from man-made hierarchies and denominations.***

All the NT churches were started by Church officials acting within the Church. There were no authorized churches begun in any Scripture.

***All of these churches have their own bishop (1 Timothy ch. 3), and deacons. And they have other pastors and teachers (Ephesians 4) as well. And these bishops were called and placed there by God, and it is very obvious to the members of those churches that it is so.***

How were these bishops called and placed by God? Did Ian Paisley get called and placed? How about Jeremiah Wright?

***We understand that that is what the Catholic Church has taught you, but we disagree that it has anything to do with Biblical Truth. There is nothing in 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30 (etc.) that indicates the seal can be broken, and actually, it appears quite to the contrary.***

Rev 7:
1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, 2 holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on land or sea or against any tree.
2
Then I saw another angel come up from the East, 3 holding the seal of the living God. He cried out in a loud voice to the four angels who were given power to damage the land and the sea,
3
“Do not damage the land or the sea or the trees until we put the seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
4
I heard the number of those who had been marked with the seal, one hundred and forty-four thousand marked 4 from every tribe of the Israelites:
5
twelve thousand were marked from the tribe of Judah, 5 twelve thousand from the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand from the tribe of Gad,
6
twelve thousand from the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand from the tribe of Naphtali, twelve thousand from the tribe of Manasseh,
7
twelve thousand from the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand from the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand from the tribe of Issachar,
8
twelve thousand from the tribe of Zebulun, twelve thousand from the tribe of Joseph, and twelve thousand were marked from the tribe of Benjamin.
9
After this I had a vision of a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation, race, people, and tongue. They stood before the throne and before the Lamb, wearing white robes and holding palm branches 6 in their hands.
10
They cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation comes from 7 our God, who is seated on the throne, and from the Lamb.”
11
All the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They prostrated themselves before the throne, worshiped God,
12
and exclaimed: “Amen. Blessing and glory, wisdom and thanksgiving, honor, power, and might be to our God forever and ever. Amen.”
13
Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?”
14
I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; 8 they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15
“For this reason they stand before God’s throne and worship him day and night in his temple. The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16
They will not hunger or thirst anymore, nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17
For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to springs of life-giving water, 9 and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

The seal is a mark or sigil, like one imprints on a letter. The seal goes on those who are saved. After they are saved, not before.

***But that one doesn’t matter, it is merely a visible earthly organization of political religionists in our view, and since we are partakers of Christ Himself, personally and in reality, once-and-forever, we don’t need such a church that might try to wrongly teach us that the seal with which the Holy Ghost hath sealed us can be broken.***

Your definition of ‘seal’ is wrong. It is not a plastic baggie.

***And actually, perpetuity (IF someone is looking for something visible all the time) of doctrine and practice since the Apostolic days, can be found in a dozen movements of Christians, all of whom could make the same claim as Rome, but alas, they never went into political kingdom building.***

There is only one Church of Jesus Christ, that has existed since Pentecost. All others are churches of men.


6,394 posted on 06/17/2008 6:00:21 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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