Why do Catholics have to confess their sins to a priest instead of praying straight to God? [Ecu]

Q. Why do Catholics have to confess their sins to a priest instead of praying straight to God?

A. In obedience to Christ.

John 20:19-23 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. 21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

After His resurrection, Jesus, appeared to His disciples on Easter Sunday evening. He conferred the power to forgive sins by breathing on them. This corresponds to God breathing life into Adam. And so, Jesus breathes life giving power to forgive sins into his disciples. Note that this is before Pentecost and the general bestowal of the Holy Spirit. This is a special and unique pouring out of the Holy Spirit for the disciples, the first priests and bishops of the Christian Church.

And the purpose of this special dispensation of the Holy Spirit is to empower the apostles with the authority to forgive or not forgive sins in the name of Christ. This specific action cannot mean some sort of general power such as that by the preaching of the Gospel sins are forgiven or not depending upon the hearer. Jesus says, “If you forgive….if you do not forgive…” It would be impossible for the disciples to obey Jesus without audibly hearing the confessions of men and women, boys and girls.

2 Corinthians 5:17-20 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

Now this verse can be interpreted in a Protestant way to mean salvation by the preaching of the Gospel. However, we see this verse as further proof for the sacrament of reconciliation/confession. Also, James points out

James 5:13-16 Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

The Greek word for elders is presbuterous. This is the Greek etymological root from which we get our English word for priest. So, James is saying to call the priests to pray for healing both physical and spiritual. Why would James specify the calling of the elders/priests for those who are sick if they had no more authority than the average Christian?

I know this is 2 different threads and I honestly spent about an hour answering your questions and then I wondered what in the heck I was doing wasting my time?!?

It doesn’t matter what I say, you still won’t believe it and it isn’t up to me to make you believe it, it is up to the Holy Spirit.

I don’t go around trying to convert non-Catholics to Catholicism, no-one ever tried to convert me and I’m Catholic. I’ll leave that to God. As an ex-Protestant I thought I had fullness of faith too.

You have your Bible, study it, if you really want to know about Catholicism study it, the internet is out there.

I was married to an alcoholic for 13 yrs and it just dawned on me that that’s how many non-Catholics argue on the FR forum. The same old stuff over and over again and I guarantee you that you can never really win an argument with an alcoholic, it is part of the disease and I gave that up 26+ yrs ago. Obviously, I’m susceptible or I wouldn’t have married an alcoholic and I should know better than to let other people push my buttons. But I’m aware of it now and I just can’t waste the time or the effort on people who just want to argue or advance their POV.

I don’t care that you have your faith, please, by all means, carry on. I don’t care that you have your point of view but I’m tired of playing the “Whack-a-Catholic” game because there is never any ending point. I’ll leave it to those who don’t get emotional and there are some really great ones on FR, so don’t feel abandoned, they are out there and they’ll tell you anything you want to know if you are polite and they’ll tell you more than what you want to know if you’re rude.

God Bless, good luck and good-bye.

Just my two cents, FWIW.

I've attended services at lots of different denominations over the years, here are my observations:

Episcopalians NEVER have Bibles in the pews. They don't have missalettes either - Scripture for the day is in the bulletin leaflet. Pews contain the Hymnal and the Book of Common Prayer, along with prayer cards and donation envelopes (and those little stubby pencils that always fall down in the bottom of the pew rack).

Presbyterians: no Bibles. Hymnals.

Baptists: depends. Mainstream Baptists, no. I think I recall seeing Bibles in the pews at an Independent Baptist church. The oldest Baptist church I know - Good Hope Baptist, Uchee, AL - has no Bibles in the pews, just hymnals.

Church of God of Prophecy: did have Bibles in the pews. Only attended once, for a funeral.

Methodists: Hymnal, with the Order of Worship in the back. Scripture's in the bulletin.

The most fundamentalist church I have ever attended was a little Church of Christ (NOT UCC) congregation way out in the country. No Bibles in the pews! Everybody brought their own copies, full of bookmarks and underlining.

What an arrogant position! Jesus very plainly imparted the power to forgive sins to the Apostles, all of whom were mere men. John 20:21-23 cannot simply be dismissed as the fanciful thinking of a bunch of "cross dressers." Moreover, the position you dismiss as "cross dressers making a living" was the only interpretation of this Scriptural passage held by all of the Churches for 1500 years! That should give you a clue!

Look, it is possible to obtain forgiveness of sins directly from God without human intermediaries. But, if that's the final state of that forgiveness, you'd better be dying with no priest around! The ordinary means of forgiveness is through priests who have this power transmitted through the ages by apostolic succession. As I and others here have made clear many times, it is God who forgives sins, but He chooses to forgive them through His priests. This is because all of his Sacraments interact with human beings in some material or visible way.

When I have gone to confession, I know my sins are forgiven, because He said so. It's cheap as pizza to just look up to Heaven and say "Sorry, Lord" after committing any sin, from simple theft to murder. Yes, they can all be forgiven, but securing God's forgiveness in the way He intended forces one to have some introspection and real contrition. No one likes going to another man and baring his sinful soul, so this fact alone helps one try to create a "firm purpose of amendment," with a view to sinning no more. Jesus, as a Man, knows our human nature perfectly, and built His means of forgiveness around it. It costs something spiritually and emotionally to confess our sins through a man who is a sinner too! It is simultaneously humbling and awe-inspiring that Jesus would have us do this to obtain His forgiveness. And, when done, we know we have been forgiven! A system that has abandoned this method, ordained by Christ, fifteen hundred years after He established it, is on very sandy ground, with a foundation built entirely of presumption. I'll stick with what He has clearly established, thank you.

Thank you all for your input on this subject of whether or not churches provide Bibles in their pews...it seems that the three of you, have had the same experiences that I have had, that is, that most churches, regardless of denomination, usually do not provide Bibles in the pews for those in attendance...I guess this may all come down to each particular church, or congregation, making those decisions, taking into consideration things such as their budget, what they expect of their members, etc...

It appears there is no general consensus....appears to be just a individual thing...that is, each particular church, does as it sees fit, or does as it is able, concerning providing Bibles in their pews...

"Also, a man can go directly to God for forgiveness without the conduit of other men.

Since, according to Scripture, our Lord entrusted the power to forgive or retain sins to His Apostles and their followers, why not follow Chris's instructions? How do you know if your sins are forgiven?"

I'll repeat a question I asked earlier.

If Christ intended that human beings ask for forgiveness (and receive forgiveness) through the agency of ordained human beings, and not directly from God Himself, why does the Lord's Prayer, which is addressed to "Our Father", include a petition to have one's "trespasses" or "debts" forgiven?

Wouldn't it have made more sense to have Jesus, when He was responding to a request from His followers to show them how to pray, not include a direct petition to God to have their trespasses forgiven?

This is no ordinary petition to God asking for His mercy. We not only ask Him to be merciful to us, but we dare place a condition and a norm on God’s forgiveness. It is the practice and the measure of our forgiveness to others. We pray for the strength to forgive so that we might be forgiven in return. By offending God in sin, we incur a debt of love and punishment for our misdeeds. We owe God greater love than we would have had we not sinned, and we owe Him a debt of suffering as punishment for offending the Divine Majesty.

So, how do you know when you have sinned? What is the measure against which you recognize your sins? Are all sins forgivable? More importantly, once you believe you have sinned and ask forgiveness from God, how do you know it has been granted?

Wouldn't it have made more sense to have Jesus, when He was responding to a request from His followers to show them how to pray, not include a direct petition to God to have their trespasses forgiven?

The answer is simple, really. Because, when you go to sacramental confession, you are asking God to forgive your sins, and He is doing so through the priest. You don't need the priest's forgiveness about anything, you need God's. That's why you go. And, since you need God's forgiveness, and you seek it when confessing your sins, it is perfectly appropriate to ask for these things, both ahead of the time and after the fact, when making a sacramental confession.

Not to complicate things here, but there is another point. Strictly speaking, only "mortal sins" must be confessed sacramentally. While it is certainly a good thing to confess "venial sins" in a sacramental confession, this is not absolutely "required." Therefore, one could recite the Lord's Prayer (especially at Mass, where one's venial sins are removed by the Mass itself), combined with contrition for such sins (yes, contrition is required for all sins, even venial ones), and such sins could be forgiven at that point.

"What is the Biblical basis for the distinction in levels of sins?" you ask. The answer can be found in 1 John 5:16-17, where John makes a distinction between "mortal" sins and those which are not "mortal." Non-mortal sins are known in the Catholic Church as "venial sins." Mortal sins destroy the sanctifying grace in one's soul, while venial since merely weaken that grace. The total absence of sanctifying grace in one 's soul at death means, by definition, that the person cannot ever enter into Heaven. Thus, sin that destroys such grace is "mortal" to one's soul, hence the name.

I hope this helps answer your question! :-)

"I hope this helps answer your question!"

Well, it helps me to see things better from a Roman Catholic point of view.

Still, it doesn't really answer (for me, anyway) the question of why Jesus, if He intended -- or commanded -- that sins (or even a certain category of sins) be confessed through a priest to God, would respond to a request from His own disciples about the proper way to pray, and include in that prayer -- a prayer prayed directly to "Our Father" -- a request to have one's trespasses (or debts) forgiven.

Why, if Jesus commanded His followers to confess their (mortal) sins to God through someone else, would Jesus have included this specific petition -- prayed directly to "Our Father"?

Jesus could have prayed like this, when demonstrating the way to pray to His disciples: "Provide us a means for the forgiveness of our mortal sins", but that isn't what he says.

He seems to make a point, in this prayer He prays in response to His disciples' request for a demonstration of prayer, of demonstrating that the sinner may -- or should -- request his or her forgiveness directly from the Father.

Try looking at it this way: to understand what He meant, you have to harmonize the two passages. Clearly, He gave the Apostles power to forgive sins for a reason, right? If He wanted people to take their sins directly to God alone, He would have been sure to omit giving mere men this power in John 20. John 20 becomes quite superfluous and downright contradictory if He wanted people to go to God directly. So, it becomes clear that, harmonizing this passage with the Our Father, petitioning the Father for forgiveness of sins is ordinarily to be done within the forum of Confession, at least for mortal sins. Or, if you like, the petition in the Our Father could be effective even before confession, if one considers that one is really asking, at this point, for the grace of true repentance and contrition for his sins, without which, one cannot be forgiven. One must repent before God before he can be forgiven by God. confession without any repentance or sorrow for one's sins is worthless.

Don't go overboard weighing one passage against the other. Each finds meaning in the other. And consider that all Churches before the 1500s taught that God's forgiveness is normatively found within the context of John 20, as the Catholic Church teaches to this day.

"So, how do you know when you have sinned?"

Any time I do or think anything apart from the will of God, I sin.

"What is the measure against which you recognize your sins?"

I believe Jesus established a rather high standard in the Sermon on the Mount. It is not only what I do (or what I fail to do) that I must examine when I look for sin in my life, it is my intention -- am I motivated in all that I do and think by God, or am I attempting to be in control?

"Are all sins forgivable?"

I believe the only sin that Christ identifies as being unforgiveable is the "grieving of the Holy Spirit".

"More importantly, once you believe you have sinned and ask forgiveness from God, how do you know it has been granted?"

Because I take God at His word. IJohn 1:9: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us from all unrighteousness". I believe that promise of God.

Not to seem like I’m piling on, but your quote of 1John 1:9 is a good passage to harmonize with the Our Father as well. Notice that “asking,” as in the Our Father, and “confessing,” as in this passage, are not necessarily the same thing, as people would ordinarily understand them. Yet, you yourself equate the “confessing” with “asking,” or at least you seem to make them synonymous. So, in fact, you are not too far off from being able to see that God has tied into His plan for us the notion that He will dispense His forgiveness through “confession.” And confession is through another mere man, namely, a priest with the power to do this transmitted down from the Apostles, who received it from Christ Himself. To God be the glory!

And confession is through another mere man, namely, a priest with the power to do this transmitted down from the Apostles, who received it from Christ Himself. To God be the glory!

Well phrased. chs ... recall the words of our Lord.

“Receive the Holy Spirit. For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sin you retain, they are retained” (John 20:22-23).

Claiming that no one but God can forgive sins, the Pharisees objected when Christ told the paralyzed man, who was lowered in front of Him, “Son, your sins are forgiven you” (Mark 2:5). but God can share this power with human beings.

Thus sins are remitted by the sacrament of baptism, as witnessed on Pentecost Sunday. And sins after baptism are also remitted by what the Church calls “the power of the keys.” This power is not possessed by all Christians, but only by those who have been ordained to the priesthood. It is this sharing in the divine power of forgiving sins that the Church believes she possesses. It is the greatest gift that the merciful Christ bequeathed to a sinful world until the end of time.

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