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To: chs68
Just where is it, exactly

In John 20:21, before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins. In the next line, John 20:22, the Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place. Jesus then says in John 20:23 "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

27 posted on 07/03/2008 11:44:50 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer
The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man.

The Breath of God creating the priesthood for His Church!

His Church that will not be destroyed or fall away from him. With the Holy Spirit who will guide the Church to always teach the Truth, and He will always be with us. The Church with the teaching authority and the authority – given by Christ- to bind and loose in matters of faith. The Church of the apostles was definitely one: " One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. (Eph. 4:4-6).

The Catholic view of the Church is the only one that is consistent with all of Scripture.

The view that the church is based on the Bible is supported nowhere in the Bible itself, and was created by men 1,500 years after the resurrection of Christ.

34 posted on 07/03/2008 12:22:11 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is an EVIL like no other, and must be ERADICATED)
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To: NYer; magisterium
"In John 20:21, before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins. In the next line, John 20:22, the Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place. Jesus then says in John 20:23 "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear."

So I guess that what you are saying is that since Christ "breathed authority (or power)" to forgive sins onto a group of human beings, He must have intended that penitants confess their sins to those human beings.

And I guess that you would also say that Christ thereby commanded all of His followers not to confess their sins directly to Christ (or to God the Father), but instead to this group of human beings that have the authority to forgive sins.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Christ, in John 20:21-23, is saying, "I command you, my followers, never to confess your sins to Me or to my Father who is in Heaven. You must, instead, confess your sins to this group of ordained human beings who have the authority and power to forgive sins -- and only to them. When you pray, never ever confess your sins to me or to my Father. Such prayers are of no value to you, and I will not hear them. Instead, you must confess to a human being."

I'm a little confused by that particular interpretation of John 20: 21-23.

It seems to me that in sort of contradicts Jesus' response to a question posed to him about how to pray. In his response, Jesus, when showing his disciples how to pray, says, "Forgive us our trespasses (or debts) as we forgive those who trespass against us (or our debtors).

Doesn't Jesus commend praying directly to "Our Father", and in that prayer, seeking forgiveness for sins?

44 posted on 07/03/2008 1:18:10 PM PDT by chs68
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