[dr_lew]

The reason that the cell is so unlikely is because it would require at least thousands of atoms and molecules all being arranged in a way which was not their natural or lowest energy resting state.

This is a specious argument. No one should suggest that a primordial cell could have arisen from a system in thermal equilibrium (... let alone the "lowest energy resting state", which would correspond to absolute zero.)

A cell exists as a "dissipative structure". That is, the arrangement of its parts is maintained by the flow of energy through its chemical pathways.

The stable flow of solar and geothermal energy through terrestrial pathways is the presumed organizing principle leading to the emergence of primordial life. This principle is quite evidently in action on the surface of the sun, for example, where there are many emergent structures in evidence. Of course, such structures as these offer only an analogy to any proposed model of the emergence of primordial life, but there is no question of a bunch of molecules lying around in thermal equilibrium and just happening to form into cellular structures.

[mrjesse]

(... let alone the "lowest energy resting state", which would correspond to absolute zero.)

You're completely twisting my words and the idea I clearly described.

Remember the example of marbles setting on a flat are of ground, 1 layer thick. When I said lowest energy resting state I put flesh on it by describing it as marbles sitting on a flat surface - not as some absolute zero thing.

A cell exists as a "dissipative structure". That is, the arrangement of its parts is maintained by the flow of energy through its chemical pathways.

Absolutely - and the mechanisms which force the energy to take the "long way around" thereby doing work for the cell - this mechanism is built up of structures of molecules which are not in the formation that they naturally arrange themselves. It is truly a bootstrap process!

Of course, such structures as these offer only an analogy to any proposed model of the emergence of primordial life,

Remember, an analogy does not prove a thing - it is only a learning aid tool, and it is only useful to the degree that it is accurate.

but there is no question of a bunch of molecules lying around in thermal equilibrium and just happening to form into cellular structures.

Are you saying that you believe that if you mix up a bunch of molecules (which are not self-replicating metabolizing) you'll get a self-replicating and metabolizing living cell...?

Show me! I say that takes a lot of faith and didn't happen.

Thanks,

-Jesse