Preach!
Posted on 07/07/2008 10:49:08 PM PDT by Gamecock
You know, YOU PEOPLE...
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No, I don't know. Please explain.
Thanks!
“What were the works of the theif on the cross when he said, ‘Lord, remember me...?’”
JMHO, but simply saying that — showing his faith while being crucified himself — was a “work.” And frankly, given the circumstances, a pretty big one.
Very nicely said! Bang, that one hit the 10 ring dead center!
JMHO, but simply saying that — showing his faith while being crucified himself — was a “work.” And frankly, given the circumstances, a pretty big one.
A work??? How in the world did you ever come up with that??? Of course it was not a work...Works for Salvation will get you straight into Hell...
THIS is what he did...
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
He acknowledged that the guy on the 3rd Cross was God...He aknowledged that THAT God could save hime...He acknlowedged himself to be a sinner in need of saving...And he called on the Lord to save him...
That's the biblical plan of Salvation...
And then Jesus died...Jesus then went to Hell...To Hell to the Compartment of Abraham's Bosom...Jesus preached to the Saints in Hell...
Jesus then unlocked the Gates of Hell so that Hell would not prevail over His church (for those of you who think that the gates of Hell are something other than the gates of Hell)...Now you finally know...
any system of works makes God indebted to the one who qualifies. Salvation is not a gift, but a wage paid to the one who earns it.
AMEN.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." -- Romans 4:4-5 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Grace saves, and grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
Thanks for the info!
AMEN!
Agree on the Truth. Sadly, hard-core RCs will not understand.
If you believe this, you are truly lost. What is required for you to enter Heaven Jesus didn't already do? Absolutely nothing!
Do you not believe in a Lord strong enough to keep you when he promised he would, or are you relying on your good works to keep you? How many good works do you have to do to enter the kind of Heaven you believe requires of you? Are some of your works more worthy than others? If the faith of a mustered seed is enough, don't you think God has already prepared a place for you without you having to tidy it up? Do you see my point yet?
Faith or belief rather, does not "save" anyone. God's grace does. Without grace salvation is dead. No more is required for anyone to obtain salvation other than placing their faith on Yeshua.
Your works, earn you crowns which you're going to give right back to God because you will realize your works are meaningless compared to what HE did for you. They are not for salvation. Faith, Works, Salvation, Grace are all seperate issues with seperate consequences.
God loves us both because God loves us, not because we do anything. Our outward appereance shows others the love of Christ in us, but it has absolutely nothing to do with our inherited relationship bestowed upon us by God...
If it did I know some people alot better than I who should be going straight to heaven without any belief in God!
Faith, Works, Salvation, Grace are all seperate issues with seperate consequences.
What on Earth are you talking about? Salvation is separate from Grace? Grace is separate from Faith and Works? Read the Scripture: "Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."
We obtain Salvation through the Grace of God. We cannot earn Grace. Grace is a gift to us through Christ. We accept that gift through Faith and Works. It is really just that simple.
>> Why do you people persist in making this claim when you have been shown time and again that the will of the Father is to BELIEVE in His Son...And THAT is NOT a work... <<
His Son says, “Unless you eat of my flesh, and drink of my blood, you shall not have life within you.” How can you believe in His Son, and not do what he instructs you?
Suppose you are leaving your kids with the babysitter, and you tell them, “While I am gone, you are to listen to the babysitter.” When you return, the babysitter reports that the kids completely disobeyed the babysitter. You turn to your kids and demand an explanation. They tell you, “we listened to the babysitter; We listened to her instructions, we just didn’t follow them.” Would you not deal severely with your kids?
Let’s say you were leaving a dear, close friend to check up on your elderly mother while you had to go away. You tell your mother, “I’m going away from you for a while, but I want you to trust my friend completely.” While away, the house burns down. Your friend tried in vain to rescue your mother, but she refused to leave the house with him, until she was completely overcome by smoke. As she recovers in a hospital bed, you ask her why she didn’t leave the house with your friend. She tells you, “you told me to trust him; you didn’t tell me to do what he says.” Would you not be anguished by the unreasonableness of this answer?
The bible is very clear: If you believe in Christ, you will do what he tells you.
>> James taught “works” because he was the head of a Jewish church that still observed the Torah. <<
The church at Jerusalem was sharply rebuked by Paul, Peter AND James for “Judaizing,” by which was meant insisting on observance of the Torah. Paul, in fact, admonished Peter for tolerating the Judaizing. Are you suggesting that the Letter of James was written prior to this correction? Or after James lapsed back into Judaizing? If so, it would be inconceivable that the early church would have preserved such a letter as scripture; you’re certainly correct that it is rejected by the vast majority of Christians!
>> Not the “elect,” but “the world.” <<
Careful, Petronski... Don’t lapse into universalism! In fact, the word used here, “cosmos,” has been used to refer to the universe. (That pesky Carl Sagan!)
“The world” does not mean every inhabitant of the world. Take an apocalyptic science fiction movie, for instance “War of the Worlds.” Viruses are said to have “saved” “mankind” from destruction. “Mankind” includes all human beings. Yet the destruction of human life depicted in the movie is incalculable.
Without Christ, the entirety of mankind would be destroyed. With Christ, many are saved. Mankind, as a whole, is saved from destruction. But that does not mean that no man is destroyed.
This is the faith of the Catholic church as well as the Calvinists. Unfortunately, the English mistranslation of the Latin Mass has led many to believe in universalism. Thus, many in Rome are presently insisting that “for the good of all” be changed to “for the good of many.”
Show me where I “lapsed into universalism.”
Thanks for both of your posts on this thread,they are excellent.
I didn’t mean you did. I was warning you to be careful. You seem to be suggesting that “the world” contradicted the notion of “only” “the elect.” The easiest thing to suppose that means is that not just “some” are chosen, but the entire world. That is universalism. I didn’t think you meant that, but that’s how one might interpret what you said.
Thank you, Sara, but isn’t it interesting that debate rages on, without anyone responding to those posts? (except those with kind words to affirm them.)
Preach!
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