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To: Dutchboy88
...you decided to seek God, you came to your senses...

Not meaning to pick holes in your coat, but by the above words, are you saying that man, in his natural state (for want of a better term) would not, instinctively, seek God? Yet how can this be? Were we not created by God and in His image? Has it to do with the incident in the Garden of Eden? But didn't the Almighty foresee this...and make allowances? After all, he was willing to negotiate with Lot, and yet Adam and his descendants were damned for all eternity for a single transgression? One that God for saw would be made?

51 posted on 08/21/2008 6:46:10 PM PDT by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: yankeedame

Just got your post this morning, not ignoring you. Good questions and I like the word picture of “holes in my coat”. If there are holes here, then I need to alter my belief. Because what is important is “What does the Bible say about these things?”

So to your questions one at a time, beginning with “Would man not instinctively seek God?” You have correctly caught that I think the Bible answers, “That’s right, he would not.” This is what most reformed folks think Paul is getting at in the letter to the Romans 3:10ff when he is quoting from all throughout the Old Testament that man will not, does not, cannot seek God. Like the original post said, the bumper sticker “Wise men still seek him” is not true. Paul says, “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, together they have become worthless...” and so on.

The fact that Paul is noting this has been taught by the Bible writers (David, Joel, Isaiah, etc) throughout history leads us to believe that, “That’s right, no one will on his own instinctively, or otherwise, seek God. If I find myself seeking the true God of Israel, and His Son, then I am being pursued, I have been rescued by Him first.”

Then, “How can this be?” If by this you mean, how can it work that a man is created in God’s image, yet doesn’t want God? That is a rather complicated question. The Bible doesn’t explain a lot about how it is possible, it more deals with “that” it is possible and I am left to cope with it. I am not aware of a specific passage or section of Scripture that deals with how it is possible. Sorry.

“Has it to do with the incident in the Garden of Eden? But didn’t the Almighty foresee this...and make allowances?” I am not real clear on what you are asking here. If it is, “Did the so-called ‘fall’ of man cause this and if so, didn’t God know that was going to happen?” I believe the answer given by the Bible is, “Of course, yes, He knew and He planned that man would sin from the get-go” How we know this is that the reference to Jesus being selected to die for our sins before the creation of the world (I Pet. 1:20) and that this plan was well laid out before all the trouble started (Acts 2:23). Thus, you are correct, the Bible tells us that God did, in fact, arrange this failure and then its resolution, for those whom he has decided to rescue.

“After all, he was willing to negotiate with Lot...” This is an interesting question because it shows you are wrestling with the implications of God managing everything, including evil. When you encounter a passage that appears that God is “negotiating” with a man, or questioning him, or asking him something, watch the entire scene play out before you conclude that God did not already know all about this matter ahead of time. For example, when God goes into Eden and asks “Adam, where are you?”, do you really think from the entire passage that God was scratching His head wondering where the guy had run off to? That Adam went missing? Not at all. From other passages we know that God knows absolutely all knowledge at all moments, and that that all is occurring in exactly His plan. He is taking the part of a character in the story, questioning us about a matter, asking something here or there. All the while knowing exactly what is true and what will occur. This is what gives us such wonderful confidence in Him. He really is God! And, yes, the Bible tells us if a man is to be damned for all eternity, God foresaw it and hardened him to that doom. Romans 9. Read the entire chapter, or better read the entire letter. That is precisely Paul’s argument.

Hopefully, this doesn’t dodge your “hole picking”.


72 posted on 08/22/2008 8:08:30 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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