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To: Gamecock

Scripture must be the rule. Apostolicity must be the standard. However, the “presbyterian” part says that this group is a “reformation” church. When one “reforms” a church, one is suggesting that there is a previous time in the church to be “reformed” in which that church was just fine. When did the church go so astray that it began needing reform? Martin Luther is evidence that certainly in his day the church was far astray. That was why reformation was needed. Had it needed reformation for 50 years, a hundred, 2 hundred, etc.?

One is also suggesting by the word “reformation,” that the good of the church hadn’t entirely disappeared. Martin Luther would himself be evidence of that. If he could find the gospel even in that time, then the gospel was findable in that church so desperately in need of reformation.

All of this also suggests that this entire group, both the reformers and the non-reformers, owed their existence to a long line of predecessors who stretched back to the time of Jesus and his apostles.

In short, aligning with the teaching of the Apostles is commendable. Simply descending from the Apostles is of not great value if a group does not align with the Apostles. To descend from them AND to teach their teaching is best.

This calls into question the ordination of those groups that are founded by a person who simply hangs out his own shingle proclaiming himself to be a Christian leader. Paul said to Titus, “5 The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you.”


6 posted on 09/18/2008 10:26:42 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain Opposing -> ZerObama: zero executive, military, or international experience)
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To: xzins
One is also suggesting by the word “reformation,” that the good of the church hadn’t entirely disappeared. Martin Luther would himself be evidence of that. If he could find the gospel even in that time, then the gospel was findable in that church so desperately in need of reformation.

The Church is ALWAYS in need of reform, since we, the Church, continue to need reform. Anyone reading the NT epistles can readily see problems the writers were addressing. There is no perfect Church in this world, only in the next. But where is the reform when one leaves the Church? How does that reform the Church? Perhaps a large exodus wakes up the heirarchy to act, but it appears that reform is better undertaken from within then from mass revolt.

Regards

16 posted on 09/19/2008 5:08:39 AM PDT by jo kus (You can't lose your faith? What about Luke 8:13...? God says you can...)
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