Yes!!! Latin, Gregorian music, incense. The true sense of the sacred...
Posted on 11/16/2008 2:15:07 PM PST by NYer
Dance can be a form of worship . . . when you’re alone outdoors or alone indoors.
The purpose of the SACRIFICE of the Mass is the Eucharist. This is where Catholics and Protestants meet the fork in the road. For Protestants the purpose of Church is the Sermon.
Dance doesn’t belong during the Sacrifice of the Mass.
Any more than the idea that we have to hold hands when we pray or sing/pray the Lord’s Prayer. (A custom I particularly disagree with.)
Yes!!! Latin, Gregorian music, incense. The true sense of the sacred...
Psalm 149:
1Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
2Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
3Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
Psalm 150:
1Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
2Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Certainly there was dance for secular pleasure and other purposes in that day; in fact, that’s easily proven from Bible verses as well. If God has no problem with this, why does the Catholic Church?
“In fact it got so bad that this morning my wife and I attended the 0800 Mass at her Anglican Parish in Delray Beach. “
I’ve been struggling with that problem for a long time now.
Is poor liturgy an excuse for skipping Mass?
How about just plain old “Catholic Calisthenics”?
Those who can’t hold still through Holy Mass. They are doing the “hands extended” Orans position, which is a priestly gesture, the “lift up your hearts” freethrow toss, Holding hands up in the air with the little final cheer during “For thine is the kingdom...” along with the across the aisle handshaking and gladhanding.
They are so devout.
>>If God has no problem with this, why does the Catholic Church?<<
Because we praise him 24/7 with song, dance and praise. We start the Slovak Dance class at my parish and my girl’s Polish Dance events with prayer.
So we give Him one hour a week to fall on our faces and show him that we are not worthy of his light.
We relive His crucifixion at our Holy Mass and there was no dancing while He hung on the cross.
>>Is poor liturgy an excuse for skipping Mass?<<
No. Our Lord only suffered three hours on a cross for you.
Watch EWTN on other days and pray to St. Michael that he will defend you in battle.
Okay, so, how am I supposed to feel about the bad liturgy as I sit in the pew?
I apologize for not being able to read every repy to this thread but it is late and I need to work tomorow. Can we please agree that the current Pope has indicated his belief that the the Church can be a smaller, more vibrant body of Christ? I have already told my wife that I expect my funeral Mass to be in Latin according to the 1962 Missal. If that is not possible, then, what do I care as long as I have had last Rites according to the proper Catholic Tradition?
“Okay, so, how am I supposed to feel about the bad liturgy as I sit in the pew?”
Just think about the Sacrament despite what goes on in front of you. Don’t let anything seperate you from the Sacrament despite all the garbage that goes on—that’s what the Enemy wants.
Freegards
Good advice, thank you.
Unfortunately, no.
You're supposed to "offer it up". When I was attending a dog trial out of town, I wound up at a Life Teen service and boy was it awful - and LOUD. I wondered whether the lady standing up front doing ASL for the deaf was required because the decibel level had rendered the congregation deaf, or whether it was just so noisy in there that nobody could hear anything.
At least nobody was dancing in the aisles - at least not that I saw. The "rock band" was gyrating around though. It would have been better if they could actually play.
I offered it up, but it was a struggle not to just turn and bolt out of there.
What my dad calls the "Episcopal Aerobics".
Amen, amen! We only stayed in our Pisky parish as long as we did because of the great music . . . but fortunately we found a good solid parish (very little "holy field goal" or handholding during the Our Father - visitors who do that look around and realize that it isn't done, and subside), and the music just keeps getting better and better.
We sang Faure's Requiem for All Souls, it was splendid AND elevating (and nobody applauded).
We do occasionally give a round of applause to new altar boys or so forth, but only after "Ite, missa est."
A few miscreants do not equate to such a comment. Remember to remove the beam from your own eye before looking for the splinter in your neighbor's.
It would be comparable to dancing at the base of the crucifix on Calvary.
There is nothing wrong with someone personally dancing before the Lord or organized liturgical dance as a form of celebration in the hall or before a Mass but - NEVER - during the Mass.
Absolutely and thank you for that excellent reminder! The recent election is a clear indicator of why this is necessary.
I have already told my wife that I expect my funeral Mass to be in Latin according to the 1962 Missal. If that is not possible, then, what do I care as long as I have had last Rites according to the proper Catholic Tradition?
Right again! If neither is available, might I suggest the Maronite Funeral Rite. Very reverent and extremely moving. After sprinkling the coffin with holy water and incensing it at the door, the priest processes before it towards the altar while the congregation sings "Open wide your gates, O Jerusalem".
“Remember to remove the beam from your own eye before looking for the splinter in your neighbor’s.”
I have no doubt there’s a beam there...but perhaps you could enlighten me as to just what precisely it is composed of. The late pope and the EP urged us to get to know one another; I suppose so we won’t be surprised if some silly nun in a pantsuit starts dancing at a High Mass, among other things.
As for the problem being confined to a few miscreants, well they must be influential miscreants if the Vatican thought it important enough for one of the papabile to comment on it. Sadly, NYer, the excesses of post Vatican II liturgics in the Roman Catholic Church have become a problem for us in the Orthodox Churches, a true stumbling block to progress on reunion as the EP hinted in his homily during the visit of +BXVI to the Phanar. That the pope and Cardinal Arinze are tackling this head on is a good thing and not something to be minimized as a problem found in a few isolated places practiced by nuts.
>>Okay, so, how am I supposed to feel about the bad liturgy as I sit in the pew?<<
I have to tell you that I did wrestle with this myself. We camp a lot in the summer and some of the Masses we’ve seen, well I had to look at the sign on the way out to make sure it was Catholic.
If the Mass is valid (and it’s either Nyer or Salvation that have a warning list of a valid mass), you take it as your personal cross. However, check around in your city. I was at “innovation central”. Like noicemakers for Mardi Gras type. Within 5 miles is my traditional Catholic parish. Start church shopping. That might help.
If your Mass is not valid, get with the Diocese.
But I have to tell you, talking with your wallet is great. Go somewhere that they have a valid Mass and give them your donation. You may see a change all the way around.
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