To post or not to post...vanity

Hal Lindsey's been there and done that. And Tim LaHaye extended the Tribulation (originally intended to be only six books) for a time, times and half a time - times two and a half - already. I think it's time Christians stop seeing themselves as Satan's doormat.

Thanks for the ping. I read through your conversation with BD and it was very interesting. BD said:

Our changed lives and thinking might have an effect and even a sanctifying influence on those around us but our job is to be witnesses to the lost not redeeming temporal man made institutions that will be destroyed when Christ comes again.

Along with his other comments I took him to mean "Job 1" (as in the Ford ad, not the Biblical citation :) I didn't see anything in his comments that was either isolationist or defeatist. As I see it, when we do our job by witnessing then the results are all on God, i.e., it is irrelevant if we "succeed" in swaying the culture. It's all in God's hands. We should still vote, we should still plug away for standing up for what is right, and we should still witness the Gospel. But the responsibility is on the latter.

What is the Post-mil view as to the condition of the culture when Christ comes back? Will it have been "reformed"? :)

As far as the Christian's responsibility, I would suggest a couple resources:

The Calvinistic Concept of Culture by Henry Van Til

Where in the World Is the Church?: A Christian View of Culture and Your Role in It by Michael Horton

Van Til writes, "The kingdom of our Lord is broader than the church as a visible organization, although the visible church is one of the most important manifestations of that kingdom in this world. But, as a matter of fact, the citizens of the kingdom of God are also members of families, of societies and nations, and as such they must show their allegiance to the King."

What is the Post-mil view as to the condition of the culture when Christ comes back? Will it have been "reformed"? :)

Postmillennialism generally teaches that over time the positive impact of the gospel on the lives of individuals will necessarily be reflected in the broader institutions; family, church, government, and culture.

I read through your conversation with BD and it was very interesting...I didn't see anything in his comments that was either isolationist or defeatist.

I thoroughly enjoyed that conversation with blue-duncan myself. It is only fair to point out that, for the majority of that thread, I had understood and articulated BD's position incorrectly. It wasn't until post #303 of that thread that BD's position finally got through my thick head. Let me state again what I said at the end of that post, when I finally understood what BD was trying to tell me:

If I were Premil, I'd hold to blue-duncan's view that the church can be expected to have a positive, progressive influence on the culture prior to the Rapture.

I have far fewer echatological arguments with that view, than with the more common dispensational view that "the world is getting worse and worse", and that even an obedient and faithful Church will grow smaller and lose influence over time. I had thought that blue-duncan was arguing in favor of this "worse and worse" position, and I was wrong.

What is the Post-mil view as to the condition of the culture when Christ comes back? Will it have been "reformed"? :)

The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."
- Psalm 110:1

Postmillennialists believe that this verse speaks to the Second Coming. Christ will not leave His throne in Heaven(i.e. return) until the culture has been "reformed" (lower case "r"). We expect an eventual reformation of the culture, however - not one that will (or can) take place over a single generation, let alone within seven years :).

Thanks very much for the references. I like how this sounds.

The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." - Psalm 110:1 ----- Postmillennialists believe that this verse speaks to the Second Coming. Christ will not leave His throne in Heaven(i.e. return) until the culture has been "reformed" (lower case "r"). We expect an eventual reformation of the culture, however - not one that will (or can) take place over a single generation, let alone within seven years :).

Thanks for the clarification concerning the earlier discussion. I agree with you both. :) ----- I also like your above. It is certainly more hopeful and more motivating than some of the other scenarios. Every generation says things are the worst they have ever been, when that just isn't true. Perhaps our lifespans just aren't long enough to really have a perspective on the ups and downs.

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