[kosta50]

Untrue. The NO does emphasize the community and the Paschal Banquet teachings, but that doesn't mean that the Sacrificial aspects are removed

Nonense. The justification for changing 1,400 years of tradition and in doing so apparently violating the infallible Tridentine Council, was for greater participation of the faithful during the Mass.

So, Kolo is absolutely right that the NO is people-centric. The orientation of the priest, alhtough NO can be done ad orienten, is in almost all instances done in versus populi.

The Latin Mass was not, nor is enough, my friend. With Modernism, the Church needed some fresh air. Now someone needs to close the windows, the bugs are coming in...

Funny that it "survived" 1,400 years without a problem. The Mass become "insufficient" (for what?) when the Church was subjected to the standards of the society, judged by fads and promoted by subclutures. A church that is made in the image of the society is no church. It is a pagan temple.

Closing the windows will not fix anything. The next pope can just as likely open them again. Who knows! Nothing is certain. But I ca bet the Orthodox will remian just where they have been for the last 1,700 years and more.

[jo kus]

The justification for changing 1,400 years of tradition and in doing so apparently violating the infallible Tridentine Council, was for greater participation of the faithful during the Mass.

I think you need another class on making the distinction between "Apostolic Tradition once given for the entire church to be believed everywhere and for all time" and "Discipline". The Rites as a whole are not infallible doctrine. They are dependent upon the culture which the people live in. Different cultures attach different meanings to symbols. Shaking hands, kneeling, standing, sitting can have different meanings to different people. As the cultural meanings change, so must the symbolism within the rite. As such, Rites CANNOT be entirely proclaimed "infallible". Thus, there was no violation of the infallible Tridentine Council.

So, Kolo is absolutely right that the NO is people-centric. The orientation of the priest, alhtough NO can be done ad orienten, is in almost all instances done in versus populi.

A rite that is "people-centric" emphasizes the Community of God coming together in Divine Worship, but again, does not remove the Sacrificial aspect.

Funny that it "survived" 1,400 years without a problem. The Mass become "insufficient" (for what?) when the Church was subjected to the standards of the society, judged by fads and promoted by subclutures. A church that is made in the image of the society is no church. It is a pagan temple.

Perhaps you are unaware of the repercussions of the Age of Enlightenment in the West? Hopefully, when such an age appears in the East, Eastern Orthodoxy will be able to counter it and remain pertinent in the lives of the young of the East.

ALL Churches are "subject" to society since the Church must be made practical in the lives of those OF society. If the Church is seen as unnecessary in the lives of society, it will quickly die.

Closing the windows will not fix anything. The next pope can just as likely open them again.

Refer back to first sentence. Learn to distinguish between infallible doctrine and discipline. Nothing of infallible nature changed with Vatican 2. The opening statements of Vatican 2 by John 23 stated that it was a pastoral council - you do realize what the intent of a pastoral council is?

Regards