Let me try a different verse. When Jesus said that the saints will escape the "things that shall come to pass" (Luke 21:36), what was He talking about? I read a list of things we shall escape in Matt. 24, Luke 21 and Rev. 6-19: war, famine, death, religious persecution, earthquakes, signs and wonders in heaven, hail fire and blood, seas and rivers turned to blood, falling stars, sun moon and stars darkened, demons loosed upon earth, scorching sun, darkness, demons working miracles, satanic deception... To me all of them can be summed up in one word: Tribulation. And Jesus promised us that we will escape it!.
1 Thess. 5:9 says that "God has not appointed us to wrath", i.e. we will escape the wrath of God. And 2 Thess. 2:7-8 says that "only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken our of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed..." What hinders the powers of darkness from having full sway today? Certainly it is not governments, we know that from experience, and we know that they will aid and abet the Antichrist. Some people think it is the Holy Spirit, but Rev. 7:9-17 establishes that multitudes of people will be saved during the Tribulation, yet John 3:5-8, Romans 8:9 and Ephesians 2:18 attest that no man is saved except through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:17-21 (or Joel 2:28-32)states that the Holy Spirit will be present on earth during the Tribulation. Therefore, the only choice left is the Church.
Further, please notice that after Rev. 4:1 there's no mention of the Church here on earth (there's one mention of the Church in heaven). Remember that the Tribulation is also known as the time of Jacob's Trouble (Jer. 30:7). The wrath of God will be for Israel, to bring Israel no a place of national repentance, and for a God-forsaken world. But those who are God's children, those bought and adopted through the blood shed at Calvary... I cannot see God pouring His wrath over them!
To PleaseNoMore, when you read that the Antichrist will fight the saints, please remember that in the New Testament all born-again believers are called saints. If you are Catholic this may upset you, but you are a saint, and so is topcat54, thatjoeguy... hey, even me!
That’s what the text is all about. Paul is telling the Thessalonians what Jesus told the disciples, "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." (John 16:33) The hope of the gospel and Christ’s return is that we will be overcomers. "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." (Rev. 3:21)
But, you are left with the fact that the Greek language does not allow you to construct Titus 2:13 as you have proposed. The blessed hope and appearing is the Second Coming of Our Lord. There is no pre-trib rapture. Only those who have been victimized by bad teaching propose such a theory.
To me all of them can be summed up in one word: Tribulation. And Jesus promised us that we will escape it!.
Yes, but their escape is not by supernatural rapture, but by “fleeing to the mountains.” (which is what the saints did in AD70, Matt. 24:16) There is nothing wrong with trying to avoid trouble by human means. But there is nothing to say we will be supernaturally snatched up from the tribulations of this world.
1 Thess. 5:9 says that "God has not appointed us to wrath", i.e. we will escape the wrath of God.
Again, nothing here that requires supernatural intervention by God ala the pre-trib rapture of dispensationalism.
Further, please notice that after Rev. 4:1 there's no mention of the Church here on earth (there's one mention of the Church in heaven).
That’s a red herring. It’s a discredited notion of the futurists that results from their system being imposed on the text. Did you know that there is no reference to God in the book of Esther? Did you know there is no direct reference to the Church in Peter’s epistles?
The bottom line is that you have to accept the system of dispensationalism (radical Church/Israel distinction) in order to get future tribulation and a secret pre-trib rapture. If you don’t accept the system, all the other difficulties fall away and the text suddenly makes perfect sense without the need to be sliced and diced into a thousand unconnected/disjoint pieces.
We can comfort others by telling them that there will be tribulation, but Jesus will be there with them through it all. The blessed hope we have is His coming again afater we go through whatever it is we must endure. Jeez...That isn't rocket science. It's basic scripture.
Let me try a different verse. When Jesus said that the saints will escape the "things that shall come to pass" (Luke 21:36), what was He talking about? I read a list of things we shall escape in Matt. 24, Luke 21 and Rev. 6-19: war, famine, death, religious persecution, earthquakes, signs and wonders in heaven, hail fire and blood, seas and rivers turned to blood, falling stars, sun moon and stars darkened, demons loosed upon earth, scorching sun, darkness, demons working miracles, satanic deception... To me all of them can be summed up in one word: Tribulation. And Jesus promised us that we will escape it!.
Luke 21:26 does not have Jesus saying we will escape these things. He says that when we see these things begin to occur, that we are to look up for our redemption (His 2nd coming) draweth nigh. In other words, these are signs of His soon returning. He does not guarantee escape. He even goes so far as to warn people to pray that they may be found worthy to escape these things, but never does He promise we will escape. Matthew 24 specifically says we will go through the tribulation, and that we'll see the AntiChrist, and such, and when we do to FLEE! He doesn't say I'm taking you out of it.
God certainly does say He has not appointed us to wrath, but to see Salvation. "For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 5:9.
Many interpret this to mean that God will take us to heaven in the Rapture before His wrath comes upon the world. But this is not what Paul had in mind. The context reveals that God's "wrath" is the same as the "sudden destruction" (vs. 3) that falls upon the lost when "the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night" (vs. 2). "God has not appointed us to wrath" (vs. 9) simply means that His wrath will not fall on true Christians when Jesus Christ returns.
Prior to Christ's return, the 7 last plagues of God's wrath will fall upon the world (Rev. 16). These plagues are very similar to the 10 plagues that fell upon the Egyptians in the time of Moses. Where were God's people then? Were they gone from Egypt? No, but they were protected! No plague fell upon the Israelites (Ex. 8:22; 9:6; etc.).
Paul wrote that "the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience." Eph. 5:6. Thus the larger issue is not "pre-trib vs. post-trib," but whether we are among the OBEDIENT OR DISOBEDIENT. When God's wrath falls, the disobedient will experience it to the fullest, no matter whether they claim to be Christians or not. Profession is worthless (see Mat. 7:21-23). Those who think they will disappear in the Rapture before the tribulation, and yet who are now living in disobedience to God's word, will experience God's wrath (unless they repent). Jesus Christ said He will assign them their "portion with the hypocrites." Mat. 24:51.
The snippets of scripture used to support a rapture doctrine are used so out of context it's scary.