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To: raynearhood
Good eschatology requires good hermeneutics.

Now you didn't learn that from scripture...You learned that from someone who doesn't like what the scripture says in plain language...

The 'thief in the night' is swift destruction, not the 'rapture' of believers. For a thorough study as to why it does mean that, go here. Granted, I did the study, but I promise... it's thorough.

Well, I gave your man, Herman Utics a fair shot...Here's one of the things he said...

That is, that on the Day of the Lord Christ will "steal away" the righteous before or during a period of tribulation and leave the unrighteous behind to endure the tribulation; or all will experience the tribulation, the righteous will be "stolen away" immediately afterwards, leaving the unrighteous to live during the post-tribulation reign of the anti-christ.

Now this is where your buddy Herman fails...Jesus doesn't come to steal anyone from anywhere...Jesus is NOT a thief...He shows up at a time when He's not expected, like a thief would...

But He doesn't show up as a thief to His flock of sheep...That's the point of the whole passage...

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

Jesus tells us what's going to happen...

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

And we know the approximate time when Jesus will show up...And He won't be coming as a thief because we're watching for Him...

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

That's certainly what it will appear like to those that are 'left behind'...That's because they won't see Jesus...He doesn't step foot on earth...We go 'up' and meet Him in the air...They're going to think we got stolen, by someone, or something...

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

You guys figure a thief will come rolling in with the lights flashing and the horn blasting, screaming out the car window as he approaches???

Naw, but thanks anyway...I'll skip Herman Utics and trying to figure out what the scripture means...I'll just read it and believe what it says instead...

137 posted on 02/26/2009 8:44:37 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
**Good eschatology requires good hermeneutics.**

Now you didn't learn that from scripture...You learned that from someone who doesn't like what the scripture says in plain language...


Incorrect. I learned that from many people that adore what the Bible says in plain language... as opposed to those who want to apply what they think the authors were trying to convey according to an historically ignorant understanding of Scripture.

Naw, but thanks anyway...I'll skip Herman Utics and trying to figure out what the scripture means...I'll just read it and believe what it says instead...

Respectfully friend, you'll read it and believe what you think it says according to poor interpretation based on historical ignorance of the meaning of terms used in the Bible instead of what the Scripture actually says.

Hermeneutics is not some special interpretation method conjured up to interpret the Bible in a special way in order to defend a set of beliefs against another. It is a textual criticism device that is applied to all historical works in order to better understand what the author of work was trying to convey when he or she wrote it. There are many different hermenuetical tools, what I was applying was Historical Hermeneutics. This tool is used most often in historical works as words and term usage changes rapidly within and across languages. I give you the Flinstone's Example on application of hermeneutics:
The last three lines of the Flinstone's theme song:
We'll have a doo time
a Yabba Doo time
We'll have a gay old time
Applying your "I'll just read it and believe what it says" method of interpretation I come to the conclusion that I would never let my children watch the immoral cartoon. No doubt, when the song writer wrote "we'll have a gay old time" he plainly wrote that Flinstones and the Rubbles were intending to have homosexual escapades...

...OR....

I can apply historical hermeneutics to the song. Let's see:

The Flinstones cartoon started in 1960. A quick etymological study of the word "gay" shows me that although it was used by homosexuals to describe themselves as far back as 1893, it's most common usage (and dictionary definition) in 1960 was
1. having or showing a merry, lively mood: gay spirits; gay music.
2. bright or showy: gay colors; gay ornaments.
3. given to or abounding in social or other pleasures: a gay social season.
4. licentious; dissipated; wanton: The baron is a gay old rogue with an eye for the ladies.
Soooo... I can safely (and rightly) interpret "we'll have a gay old time" as
we'll have a merry time, full of a lively mood
Whew! Good thing too, lest Dobson links Spongebob to Barney Rubble.

To not use hermeneutics and other tools of interpretation leads to silly interpretations based on ignorant methods of "just reading it and believing what it says instead."
197 posted on 02/27/2009 8:32:18 AM PST by raynearhood ("I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels" -John Calvin)
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