Posted on 05/05/2009 9:02:29 PM PDT by ReformationFan
***These bishops, instead of preaching heresy, violating the canons and essentially having their heads explode over what is going to happen in another diocese, ought to read the Fathers, learn the canons and then preach the Truth as The Church has preserved it, not play silly, and frankly embarrassing political games.
So, opposing Notre Dame’s invitation to a man who supports the wholesale murder of millions of children and even opposing the murder itself is a “silly, and frankly embarrassing political game”?***
Why didn’t we oppose all those other pro abortion politicians throughout the years? Where is the outrage at Obama at the voting booth? Where is the outrage against Pelosi? Mikulski? Daschle? Sibelius? Etc. and etc.
The Latin Church is damnably hypocritical in voting for all of these obaminations. The Bishops wallowed in political stardom in hobnobbing with these murderers whilst ignoring catechisis of its next generation. Save the outrage for the bishops. They screwed up big time. The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops and of this generation, we will expect a complete layer. This does not let the current Church laity off the hook either. Shame on us.
Don’t attack the ones who convey the message - the correct one. Let us look at our own house. We have an entire theology to work on; let us not pay too much attention to the headlines.
Except for ND. That in my opinion will remove the school from the Catholic registry. Who in this Catholic hierarchy has a theological backbone instead of passing the buck. Kolo is correct. WTF is the USCCB doing? Have they forgotten all their vows and their instructions? But ND is a symptom and NOT a cause. Why are we not picketing our bishops until they do the right thing? Why are we not physically accosting them? Are we all cowards?
“He claims to be a baptized Christian. Why do you make the claim he is an agnostic?”
Because I doubt the efficacy and licitness of any baptism performed by the likes of Wright or his fellow travelers and lickspittles. .
"If you choose to." Exactly.
"I seem to remember the Lord only asks for 10%!"
We're not under the Old Testament Law now where God _commanded_ his people to "PAY" a tithe. Today, we're under New Testament Grace, where God tells us that he loves a "cheerful GIVER".
He even gives us the example of "The Good Samaritan" and all the lessons that entails.
“Bishop D’Arcy certainly seems to welcome the support, this is hardly “interference”.”
Bishop D’Arcy has no authority whatsoever to extend economia for a canonical violation by a fellow hierarch, no matter what he feels about the violation. The canons don’t work that way, W. No bishop gets to just make it up as he goes along, although given what the Latin bishops not only tolerate but actually encourage in this country, its no surprise that some bishops, quite aside from lay people, might think canonical violations can be dealt with other than as called for in the canons. In this case its deposition.
>>I must have missed +Pius XII’s head exploding in public during a rant against Hitler....<<
That is a nutty statement. If he had come out forcefully against the Nazis, the Nazis would have come down forcefully on Catholic Priests, Nuns and laity that work working to save thousands of Jews.
Here, read this
“Pope Pius XII and the Jews
New York Rabbi David Dalin has proposed that Pope Pius XII be proclaimed “Righteous Among the Nations,” the highest award given by the state of Israel to persons who were outstanding in assisting persecuted Jews during World War II. An article published in the latest issue of The Weekly Standard, a conservative U.S. magazine, states: “The Talmud teaches that ‘whosoever preserves one life, it is accounted to him by Scripture as if he had preserved the whole world.’ More than any other 20th century leader, Pius XII fulfilled this Talmudic dictum, when the fate of European Jewry was at stake. No other Pope had been so widely praised by Jews, and they were not mistaken. Their gratitude, as well as that of the entire generation of Holocaust survivors, testifies that Pius XII was, genuinely and profoundly, a righteous gentile.”
Rabbi Dalin maintains that many recently published books have not understood the way in which Pius XII opposed Nazism and all that he did to save Jews from the Holocaust. In this connection, the rabbi refers to a great number of events, documents, declarations and books. “Any fair and thorough reading of the evidence demonstrates that Pius XII was a persistent critic of Nazism. Consider just a few highlights of his opposition before the war. Of the 44 speeches Pacelli gave in Germany as Papal Nuncio between 1917 and 1929, 40 denounced some aspect of the emerging Nazi ideology. In March 1935, he wrote an open letter to the Bishop of Cologne, calling the Nazis ‘false prophets with the pride of Lucifer.’ That same year, he assailed ideologies ‘possessed by the superstition of race and blood’ to an enormous crowd of pilgrims at Lourdes.”
One of Rabbi Dalin’s books, “Religion and State in the American Jewish Experience,” was singled out as one of the best academic works of 1997. Ordained in New York, Rabbi Dalin has given several conferences on relations between Christians and Jews in Trinity College, Hartford, Connecticut; George Washington University; and Queens College, New York. He serves on the CCJU’s Board of Directors.
Rabbi Dalin concludes his article affirming that “Pius XII was not Hitler’s Pope, but the closest Jews had come to having a papal supporter, and at the moment when it mattered most.”
Your statement is ignorant of the times and circumstances.
“Bishop D’Arcy has no authority whatsoever to extend economia for a canonical violation by a fellow hierarch, ...”
What authority does Kolokotronis claim over Latin Rite clerics?
“Obama isn’t a Roman Catholic. He isn’t a Catholic of any sort.”
Are you?
“Your statement is ignorant of the times and circumstances.”
Oh, I beg to differ. I know that period of history and the Pope’s role in it very well. The fact is that what the pope did, he did in secret at least to an extent because of course much of the Vatican diplomatic corps was in on his plans. +John XXIII’s actions in Turkey are a good example. But +PXII wasn’t telling anyone, publicly or privately, that what he was doing was in fulfillment of the ultimate trump all “dogma” like at least some of these heresiarchs have. Beyond that, if in fact he was interfering in a local diocese, under Latin canon law he, and he alone, had that authority.
Learn your own theology and ecclesiology, n. Its important.
“What authority does Kolokotronis claim over Latin Rite clerics?”
None at all, of course. And your point is? :)
“Obama isn’t a Roman Catholic. He isn’t a Catholic of any sort.”
“Are you?”
Indeed I am, the original sort, narses.
“Indeed I am, the original sort, narses.”
Maybe but then Canon Law isn’t ‘original’ is it? Frankly your very odd jihad against the Bishops who have found the courage to stand up against the communist killer and his coterie of evil fails to persuade me that you are any kind of a Catholic. Your willingness to defend the liar-in-chief also calls into question your credentials as a conservative.
>>The fact is that what the pope did, he did in secret at least to an extent because of course much of the Vatican diplomatic corps was in on his plans.<<
Ooooo, smart of you to admit he did something. Pretty lame to disagree with the Jews who do not have your stand.
>>Learn your own theology and ecclesiology, n. Its important.<<
Looks a whole lot like a personal insult considering me to be ignorant. Tsk, tsk. Not in the rules there, my FRiend. I remained neutral with you and commented on your “statements” not you.
So basically, going through life bigoted and snobby is no way to live.
Where did anyone in authority say that abortion supercedes other dogmas?
Emotion drives it. Either envy, greed, or in the case of saving the planet hubris.
“Your willingness to defend the liar-in-chief also calls into question your credentials as a conservative.”
Really? Is there any defense of Obama or his position on abortion in anything I’ve posted?
“Where did anyone in authority say that abortion supercedes other dogmas?”
Bishop Martino on an article right on this forum, among others. I’ll try to find it tomorrow.
Perhaps you should have enough faith in the Church and the Eucharist to realize that God is in control and no one can danger souls of the faithful and the humble who submit themselves to the teachings of the church,dear brother
Spend time in Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament,dear brother
You make a good point.
The 10% comment is more of a swipe at the govt taking so much "to help the poor" who never seem to get out of poverty.
It is not uncommon to find Catholic figures who would point out that the abortion, gay marriage, artificial insemination, cloning and euthanasia are “non-negotiable” issues for Catholics, whereas issues of, for example, poverty relief or foreign policy are in a separate category. One can support one method of poverty relief over another, but a Catholic cannot but firmly oppose abortion.
This is not the same as saying that abortion supercedes other dogmas. Are you sure you don’t refer to statements of non-negotiability and interpret them as invention of superdogmas?
“Are you sure you don’t refer to statements of non-negotiability and interpret them as invention of superdogmas?”
Quite sure. I’d notice the distinction, Alex.
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