Posted on 05/29/2009 8:21:39 AM PDT by NYer
You’re free to be judgemental and damning of the man if that’s what helps you sleep at night. I’m a sinner and will not judge him for what I could never do anyway. I wish him well and hope through God’s love he finds happiness.
It's amusing when people who are obviously not Catholic tell the Catholic Church what it ought to do, but using tired old protestant propaganda to do it is always downright hilarious! Thank you so much for your suggestion, we'll get right on it!!!
That's assuming the Church wouldn't have allowed him to be laicized, otherwise, it's a false choice. He could have left the priesthood, married the girl and kept the Catholic faith, like that EWTN brother did. Sounds like he is not too hot on the faith to begin with.
You might call it tired old protestant propaganda but I happen to be a Catholic. Its time to get out of the middle ages.
There is no entitlement to be both a priest and married. Cutie could have left the priesthood and married the woman, as many priests have done before without leaving the Catholic faith. Clearly, his faith is not that strong in this case since he is so willing to throw it overboard.
It would result in more Catholics being willing to choose to be priests. It is also not as if Catholic preists were never allowed to marry.
No, his church would not allow him to be a Priest anymore so he chose to join another Christian Church that would accept his vocation and his desire to remain a minister of the Christian faith. This man is a good man who tried to be celibate found that he could not but has now found another way to serve God.Your comments only show your intolerance for other Christian religions
Cut and paste the words where I judge or condemn Cutie.
Hint: stating that he broke his vows and caused scandal does not qualify. That's just a fact. His culpability will be decided by Almighty God
I guess you and NYer can flip a coin for which of you gets to cast the first stone.
Poor Fr. Cutie, right? Poor Catholic faithful, I say.
Nobody is going to lob stones at the priest, even though we're immensely disappointed. Unlike you, my first thought is for Joe and Jane Average Pew Dweller who are struggling with their own crosses, be they sexual, financial, familial or other and who are persevering heroically and bringing up children but who are sick to the back teeth with the behavior of wayward clergy, whether they be homos abusing young men, heteros like Fr. Cutie who get the hots for some babe in the congreagation and break their vows, or the embezzlers who take the collection plate to the casino or racetrack.
We've had our fill of scandal, OK? How about cutting us some slack? We turn over our hard earned monies each week and are greeted with more stories of scandal and we're supposed to shed tears?
Please.
Cry for Fr. Cutie on your own.
So because someone is weak, therefore, he must be allowed to change the rules of the Latin Rite to suit himself and continue to be a Catholic priest and marry? Seems to me that you are trying to dictate to the Catholic Church what her clerical rules should be here. Mr. Cutie knew those rules and made those vows knowingly. Sadly, he fell into sin, as we all do at times. Then, however, if he really believed in and was loyal to the Catholic faith, he would either have repented and continued as a priest, or asked for laicization and married. There is no entitlement to be both priest and married in the Catholic Church, and it is not lacking in Christian charity to say there is no such entitlement. I believe that even for Episcopal priest converts it is only a discretionary and extraordinary exception granted on a case by case basis as it is in derogation of the discipline of the Latin Rite. This is NOT an issue of not being charitable to a man who falls into sin. We can be charitable for anyone who falls into sin. That does NOT mean that the Catholic Church should give up the great gift and wonderful countercultural statement that is the celibacy of the clergy because one person insists that they have a right to continue to act as a priest even though they have broken their vows and remain unrepentant.
Sorry, that's wrong. The Pauline privilege refers to the church's ability to dissolve the marriage of two unbaptized persons when one joins the Church and the marriage breaks up.
Certainly a "married Episcopalian priest" stays married if he joins he Catholic church, but he is at that point a Catholic layman.
The Catholic Church recognizes the priesthood of the Episcopalian church because their priests have valid holy orders that were bestowed upon them dating back to the time of Henry the VIII.
Nope. The validity of Anglican orders was definitively rejected by Leo XIII in 1896, but was dubious before then.
If this guy had married first become an Episcopalian Priest and then converted to Catholicism he would be able to maintain his marital status.
Sure, but he wouldn't be a Catholic priest at that point.
Ridiculous is it not
Maybe you should get your story straight before deriding someone else's beliefs or practices. What you are talking about is called the "Pastoral Provision," and there is nothing automatic about it. In fact it requires a special appeal to Rome for a dispensation from celibacy, and the process takes *years*. After that, the man needs to make up any deficiency in his training, and then he has to be ordained to the diaconate and then to the priesthood.
(I know what I'm talking about; a friend of mine is going through the process right now.)
And once the man is ordained to the diaconate, if his wife should die, he is not permitted to remarry any more than any other Catholic cleric is permitted to remarry.
If Mr./Fr. Cutie should decide to become a Catholic again, he would remain technically a priest (because Catholic ordination is indelible) but would be prohibited from active ministry unless his marriage were to end *and* he were to successfully petition to be reinstated.
Wow comparing Cutie with pedophile priests. Your unbelievable. Of course you are so spotless and sinless you can stand in judgment. Your hypocrisy is sickening.
It seems to me that you are a very dogmatic as well as judgmental individual.
The first statement sounds awfully dogmatic to me.
No, his church would not allow him to be a Priest anymore so he chose to join another Christian Church that would accept his vocation and his desire to remain a minister of the Christian faith.
Right, my point exactly. The issue is not whether he was being forced to remain Catholic or marry this woman. That is a false choice. He could almost certainly have remained Catholic and had the woman if he wanted to. If he did not want to repent and continue to be a Catholic priest in accordance with Catholic discipline, he could have requested laicization and married the woman. Many priests have done this without leaving the faith, like the recent case of the borther at EWTN.
This man is a good man who tried to be celibate found that he could not but has now found another way to serve God.
I don't know if he is a "good" man or not -- I leave that to him and his Maker, but he did NOT have to renounce his faith in order to marry the woman. That is my point. He obviously doesn't care much about the Catholic faith since he is willing to throw it aside when he does not have to in order to marry the woman. There is no entitlement to be a married priest, and the Catholic Church has every right to require celibacy from Latin Rite priests. Nobody is forced at gun point to become a celibate priest. If you don't want to, then leave the priesthood, not the Church.
Your comments only show your intolerance for other Christian religions
How dare you say this? Show one shred of evidence where I am "intolerant" of other Christian religions. It seems to me that it is you who are completely intolerant of other religions, since you are arrogantly lecturing that the Church has to give up its glorious tradition of a celibate clergy to suit you.
Isn't that a bit......er..........ya know......judgemental?
Why? Because I lay waste the half-baked arguments of those who've bought into modern mumbo jumbo?
I have always found people like you to be a complete turnoff.
I'm not running for office. Personal popularity is irrelevant to me.
You call yourself Christian? I don't think so.
Did I call myself a Christian? I have lots of skeletons in my closet. It's highly likely that I'm not a Christian.
However, your sympathy for Cutie is totally misplaced. This world is full of people who are truly suffering. Their whole life is one long crucifixion.
And I'm not talking about grown men who've voluntarily undertaken to abstain from sex.
Celibacy is a discipline, as you rightly note. A difficult one. However, thousands of holy men and women have given witness to its value and glory to God for over two thousand years. John Paul II, of happy memory, called it "the brightest jewel of our priesthood" for indeed that is what is is and the saints and martyrs have died rather than abandon it.
A reasonable man would conclude that you have judged and condemned Cutie right there. Apparently he should have been willing to die, but instead he failed.
Nobody is going to lob stones at the priest, even though we're immensely disappointed.
Our reasonable man would say you're engaged in stone lobbing even now....
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
No ... I just refuse to condemn the guy because of his failure, as some seem to be doing on this thread.
Excuse me regarding the Pauline Priviledge I knew there was some provision but I got the name wrong.But you knew what I was talking about right.Show me a single instance where a married Anglican priest was ever rejected by Rome if he wanted to convert and stay married. I’ll bet there either were none or very very few. Why does the church allow these former Anglican priests to remain married if they convert while not permitting its own clergy the same right to marry? Show me the scripture that requires a celibate priesthood. There is none. Celibacy was a man made law and a political decision by the church. For over 1,000 years the Catholic Church permitted the married priesthood but when the married priest started leaving Church lands to their families ,the church came up with celibacy. Perhaps if they had allowed priests to marry there would not have been so many misfits and homosexual pedophile priests that were left to fill the ranks of a disappearing clergy.Remember it was not until 1896 that the Catholic Church invalidated the priesthood of the Anglican communion. And guess what this pronouncement does not fall under the so called infallible teaching. In other words the invalidation could actually be subject to error.I seem to detect a great deal of religious intolerance on the part of some who set themselves up as defenders of archaic practices such as priestly celibacy. Let it be optional so we can get some real men as priests who know and have experienced the world and not some sissy who has no knowledge of real life. We need apostles not pharisees and eunuchs.
Incorrect. Cutie is thinking with the wrong head and in doing so has abandoned his faith for a bimbo. He's nothing but a con artist who'll most likely end up getting screwed over by his fornication partner.
When looking at what vows have meant to some holy men and women, it's hard not to be struck by the contrast to the facility with which some abandon them. That's a simple observation, not condemnation. Some men have died rather than abandon their celibacy. Some have done so willingly with no coercion.
Is it permissible for me to say that breaking solemn vows, voluntarily undertaken, is wrong?
Or does that simple statement cross the line, in your opinion?
I'm trying to find where the "condemnation and judgment" angle comes from.
I believe your problem is coming from an erroneous starting assumption. Specifically, that celibacy is an unnatural and therefore unsustainable practice. Ergo anyone who attempts to undertake it should be readily excused should they fail to live up to it for it is inherently unreasonable.
The Catholic Church does not believe this and neither do I. It teaches that with the grace of God, all things are possible and certainly celibacy is among them.
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