Posted on 06/17/2009 9:48:34 AM PDT by NYer
You forgot the violins and choir.
Nobody is apologizing for Mary. But, the believers free from the chains of Rome don’t pray to her, revere her, make icons of her, get guided by her, or hold any other veneration about her.
She was the earthly mother of Jesus at His incarnation. Nothing more, nothing less. She received a great favor by being chosen to do so. Nothing more, nothing less. She was a sinner like you and me. Nothing more, nothing less.
I wonder if the Roman Catholics here would be willing to say she was predestined for her role. Or did it happen by her “free will”?
It will be too late to apologize then, for you will be judged. I can't judge you; you can't judge me; only God can judge us.
Interesting conversations...
Here we go again...the Jews compiled the books we call the Old Testament. The Torah, w’Nebiim, w’Kethubim. The Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. Rome had absolutely nothing to do with this entire compilation. Let go of the ego trip.
The New Testament was compiled long before the so-called Roman Catholic Church was in existence. The believers of the first century recognized the Gospels and Epistles that rose to the level of Scripture and added them.
The concept of Sola Scriptura is only a description of what Paul writes to Timothy (II Tim. 3:15ff) “...and that from childhood you have kown the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired of God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.”
We don’t need Rome. Keep their creepy eccentricities out of the mix. You can be free to study the Scriptures and read them as the writers intended. No “bishop” is needed to approve your thinking. Let them go.
He won’t ask. Only your sick organization thinks this is what a man is judged on. Even Jesus said, “These are my mother and brothers, that hear my word.”
The believers in Christ know we will be asked, “In who’s righteousness are you clothed?” Our answer, “Yours, Lord.”
What an impressive strawman!
The New Testament was written and compiled by the Catholic Church, founded by Christ.
The concept of Sola Scriptura is only a description of what Paul writes to Timothy...
No, it is a distortion of what St. Paul writes to St. Timothy. St. Paul says all Scripture is good for the purposes listed. Sola Scriptura says ONLY Scripture is good.
Your loss.
She was asked and gave her consent.
Read your Bible.
Classy.
Really classy.
***The believers in Christ know we will be asked, “In who’s righteousness are you clothed?”***
How do you know that? Where is it in the Bible?
Mary is simply a vessel, as she was when she was chosen by God to bring His only Son to this earth. She was given to us by Jesus Himself when He was dying on the Cross. If he revered her that much, should we not do the same? After all, she always points the way to her Son.
He sounds much like our #2 son, for whom I pray every day.
I guess my Protestant Bible mistranslated Jesus’ prayer “Our Father, Who art in Heaven” instead of “Mary, My Mother, Who art in Nazareth, Hallowed be Thy name.”
Ed
Now you’re just being either silly or absurd.
At our deaths Jesus won’t ask us how we felt about His mother, he patently will ask us “Did you care for My flock? Did you feed the hungry, did you clothe the naked, did you visit the poor, the sick and the jailed?”
Ed
The believers in Christ don’t revere any man, including Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, et al. They all, like you and I, have made ridiculous statements at some time in their lives. Only the RC group thinks their piffle doesn’t stink, though. The rest of us know better.
But, yes, the RC certainly have stained the world with a large collection of utterly worthless tradition manufactured for their own pleasure. Junk, blasphemous, waste of time and unholy. They should cry for repentence, if God might grant it, “leading to a knowledge of the truth and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil having been held captive to do his will. II Tim. 2:25, 26.
I’m just pointing out the absurdity of praying to someone who is both dead, and who is NOT God!
Mary was indeed blessed, but she’s just like other noble women in the Bible...a sinner, in need of salvation, and not the one to whom we must pray, as her Son pointed out!
And if she WASN’T a sinner, if God made her sinless to carry Jesus, then did HER mother also need to be born sinless, since she carried the “sinless” Mary?? And if Elizabeth was born sinless to carry her sinless daughter, should we also pray to HER, too?? It seems from reading Jesus’ prayer that He wants us to pray to GOD, His Father, not to some human who’s up in Heaven.
It’s just all so bizarre...so much of Catholicism is Godly, but they have these weird sticking points, like worshiping bread instead of God, believing that Mary should be prayed for, believing that Mary never sinned and believing that Mary never died, but was instead carried straight to Heaven like Elijah.
Ed
Some people have gone overboard in their Marian devotion, but even they know that Mary is not a substitute for Jesus, although she does turn us toward Him.
Catholics do revere Mary, as her Son taught us to do. I have no idea what you mean about 'conducting operations on the earth'. As one of Jesus's disciples, we can pray for miracles through her, in His name, in the same manner as he directed his other disciples, and as some Saints in heaven do. Of course, these miracles are works of God, and we all know that, but there's nothing wrong with enlisting the help of our favorite Saints when we're asking for God's help. Isn't that what we do here on earth when we ask others to pray for us? Again, we're only doing what Jesus directed us to do.
It's not an either/or thing. It's funny how "Reformist" Christians take so much of the Bible literally, but don't treat His words on the Eucharist that way. He said "THIS is My Body," not "This is a symbol of My Body."
Mary should be prayed for
Not prayed for- ask her to pray for us.
believing that Mary never sinned and believing that Mary never died
Actually, the doctrine of the Assumption is ambivalent on whether she physically died or not. It just states that at the end of her earthly life, her body and soul were assumed (meaning not of her own power) into Heaven.
Since we Catholics believe in the Trinity, calling Mary, the "Mother of God" is only natural, since God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
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