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To: kingpins10
Liturgy is paganism and not Biblical.

Are you kidding? Have you read Revelations? All of the major elements of the Catholc liturgy are described by John in the Book of Revelations, as the heavenly liturgy. From Scott Hahn's The Lamb's Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth (pp. 119-121):

Sunday worship: Rev. 1:10
A high priest: Rev. 1:13
An altar: Rev. 8:3-4; 11:1; 14:18
Priests (presbyteroi): 4:4; 11:15; 14:3; 19:4
Vestments: 1:13; 4:4; 6:11; 7:9; 15:6; 19:13-14
Consecrated celibacy: 14:4
Lamp stands, or Menorah: 1:12; 2:5
Penitence: Ch. 2 and 3
Incense: 5:8; 8:3-5
The book, or scroll: 5:1
The Eucharistic host: 2:17
Chalices: 15:7; ch. 16; 21:9
The Sign of the Cross (the tau): 7:3; 14:1; 22:4
The Gloria: 15:3-4; The Alleluia: 19:1, 3, 4, 6
Lift up your hearts: 11:12
The "Holy, Holy, Holy": 4:8
The Amen: 19:4; 22:21
The "Lamb of God": 5:6 and throughout
The prominence of the Virgin Mary: 12:1-6; 13-17
Intercession of angels and saints: 5:8; 6:9-10; 8:3-4
Devotion to St. Michael, Archangel: 12:7
Antiphonal chant: 4:8-11; 5:9-14; 7:10-12; 18:1-8
Readings from Scripture: 4:8-11; 5:9-14; 7:10-12; 18:1-8
The Priesthood of the faithful: 1:6; 20:6
Catholicity, or universality: 7:9
Silent contemplation: 8:1
The marriage supper of the Lamb: 19:9, 17

Take together, these elements comprise much of the Apocalypse--and most of the Mass.

Also, like the Mass, the Book of Revelations divides rather neatly in half. The first eleven chapters concern themselves with the proclamation of the letters to the seven churches and the opening of the scroll. This emphasis on "readings" makes Part One a close match for the Liturgy of the Word in the first half of the Mass. Significantly, the first three chapters of Revelation mark a sort of Penitential Rite: in the seven letters to the churches, Jesus uses the word "repent" eight times. This recalls the words of the ancient Didache, the liturgical manual of the first century: "first confess your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure." Even John's opening assumes that the book will be read aloud by a lector within the liturgical assembly: "Blessed is he who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear" (Rev. 1:3).

Revelation's second half begins in Chapter 11 with the opening of God's temple in heaven, and culminates in the pouring of the seven chalices and the marriage supper of the Lamb. With the opening of heaven, the chalices, and the banquet, Part Two offers a striking image of the Liturgy of the Eucharist, the second half of the Catholic Mass.

It's all in your Bible -- the one you espouse to be inerrant and infallible and your sole authority.

The early Christians, from the Apostles onward, were engaged in liturgy. See Mike Aquilina's The Mass of the Early Christians.
54 posted on 06/26/2009 9:28:44 AM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: bdeaner; kingpins10

I too was shocked when I read what kingpins posted.

kingpins, even if you reject the (fine) apologetic bdeaner posted, to issue the blanket statement “Liturgy is paganism and therefore not Biblical” is to contradict Scripture, quite frankly. And the Scripture I’m referring to here is Hebrew Scripture (the OT), not Christian Scripture (the NT).

There are plenty of descriptions of forms of public worship in the OT, as I’m sure you are aware. The very definition of the word “liturgy” is “a form of public worship”. So, it is quite correct, in every sense of the word, to say that the Jews had their own “liturgy” before Christ was even revealed. They still have their own liturgical practices even today. The Mosaic Law is replete with examples of liturgical practices.

So to say that “liturgy is paganism” is to say that the practice of Jews was/is “pagan”, which of course is ludicrous.

I hope you take this as an opportunity for education, and not to insist on further debate on this point. There is simply no getting around this fact.


55 posted on 06/26/2009 9:38:21 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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