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To: Petrosius; GonzoII; kosta50

“And when were they declared heretics? Heresy is a serious charge and should not be spread lightly. See comment above. This is not to say that I do not take issue with some of the more extreme opinions in the Radio Replies.”

Its heresy to deny the sacraments of the Orthodox Church. In particular, they are denying the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Quite aside from what we Orthodox might think of that, if I recall correctly, Trent had something to say about that...along the lines of “Let them be Anathema”.


22 posted on 07/03/2009 4:55:21 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; GonzoII; kosta50
While Frs. Rumble and Carty were clearly wrong concerning Orthodox orders, simple error does not equate to heresy. Heresy is the obstinate denial or doubt of an article of faith. For the fathers to be justly described as heretics rather than just erroneous there must be shown that there was an attempt by Church officials to correct them that they then refused to accept. There are many among the Orthodox who today refuse to recognize the validity of Catholic sacraments, as has been made clear by this very forum. I do not recall you ever describing them as heretics.

Nor should the lack of such correction be construed to imply that Rome agreed with them at the time. I doubt very much that anyone in Rome, or even in their home diocese, was aware of this particular fault. Radio Replies is filled with hundreds of answers and I would suspect that this is not the only mistake. Unless this had been brought to the attention of the hierarchy I doubt that they took the time to read it.

The denial of the validity of Orthodox orders was not the accepted view at any time. This is clear by the fact that the Orthodox bishops and priest who came back into union with Rome have never been required to seek reordination, contrary to what is required of the Anglicans.

I would also give GonzoII some slack. He is posting the entire Radio Replies, which does contain some very good information. I seriously doubt that he is doing this to just to get this one response posted.

24 posted on 07/03/2009 6:58:24 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Kolokotronis; Petrosius
"Its heresy to deny the sacraments of the Orthodox Church. In particular, they are denying the Real Presence in the Eucharist."

I don't know where you got that from, but the Fathers clearly admitted that the Greeks have valid orders and the Mass.

"They may retain valid orders and the Mass — things which Protestantism lost ".

Source: 307. How does the Greek Church differ from the Catholic Church?

28 posted on 07/03/2009 12:22:20 PM PDT by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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