Posted on 07/07/2009 7:16:20 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
Evidently, "Intentionally Spreading The Plague" is to Calvin's Geneva as "Counterrevolutionary Activity" is to Stalin's USSR.
Non Sequitur
Don’t let facts get in your way. You seem to prefer the same treatment of history that liberals and Democrats do: Cast it in whatever light suits your purpose.
Thanks ray. I will bookmark those for later when I need to debunk the Servetus issue and can’t find you. :) It is amazing how quickly the ad hominen starts when Calvin is discussed and people can’t readily refute his theology. The whole Servetus issue is all they have been told and told so many times that without even checking out the facts, they come to hate Calvin and all he believed in as well as those who share the same beliefs. Often it is the same people who whine because the teaching of their “saints” are misunderstood. The measure you use to judge shall be...
Thanks again. Looking forward to reading through them. And I certainly understand about getting a new computer.
Ha! That is funny. Well, not funny that they were executed or that they spread the plague, but that such twisting of facts are used to discredit Calvin. Ironic might be a better word though. I always find it somewhat amusing that the facts (or the scripture) that people use to "prove" their erroneous point is often the one that best refutes them when taken in context, or when the actual facts are really known.
heh heh.. love the card. Almost as much as Gamecock’s bobble-head Calvin.. :)
What utter nonsense.
From "John Calvin: a man of compassion - Rev. J. L. Van Popta":
"Medical care for the needy was established in Geneva when the "ecclesiastical ordinances" were passed in 1541. Those who ran the hospitals were to be paid out of the city coffers. By 1569, "Ordinances Concerning the Estate of Medicine, Pharmacy, and Surgery" were passed.
"Besides the doctors appointed for the large hospital and for the poor refugees, each doctor is required to visit the poor sick in the quarter in which he lives, being required by charity. (Graham 104)
"In his development of care for the poor, Calvin tried to apply his Scriptural insights and his compassionate heart to a difficult situation. Graham estimates that in the twenty years from 1542 to 1561 the city of Geneva had an increase in population of 100%. This was due to the flood of refugees that were pouring out of France (105). Calvin believed that all should be able to work and so began to create employment and industries for the refugees. This compassion was in marked contrast to events in Paris. Graham reports that in France it was not "War on Poverty" but "War on the Poor." In Paris the poor were chained together and driven as if slaves. Being a beggar was reason enough to be whipped (98). It was because of Calvin's understanding of the ethics of property that in Geneva the situation was much different."
What does your quote have to do with your statement that Calvin had no compassion? I don’t understand. Can you please explain why you used that quote to back up your point? Can you give the facts that show this quote is even true? That is, can you please show that it proves the point that “Calvin’s God” only wanted to be feared? Can you logically show that getting rid of man’s customs is a logical conclusion that God is ONLY to be feared? I really do not see that at all and am wondering how you came to that conclusion. Can you explain your reasoning. If not, then I guess we can assume it may not be a valid conclusion, and maybe just a rant.
The official acts of the Council from 1541 to 1559 exhibit a dark chapter of censures, fines, imprisonments, and executions. During the ravages of the pestilence in 1545 more than twenty men and women were burnt alive for witchcraft, and a wicked conspiracy to spread the horrible disease.(722)The witchcraft described was the "divining" of the ointment. But, you know, however you want to spin it works, too. /sarcasm
(722)Calvin himself states this fact in a letter to Myconius of Basel, March 27, 1545 (Opera, XII. 55; Bonnet, I. 428), where he says: "A conspiracy of men and women has lately been discovered, who, for the space of three years, had spread the plague through the city by what mischievous device I know not. After fifteen women have been burnt, some men have even been punished more severely, some have committed suicide in prison, and while twenty-five are still kept prisoners,—the conspirators do not cease, notwithstanding, to smear the door-locks of the dwelling-houses with their poisonous ointment. You see in the midst of what perils we are tossed about. The Lord hath hitherto preserved our dwelling, though it has more than once been attempted. It is well that we know ourselves to be under His care."
Sorry, should have pinged you to #29.
You're right, postings don't diminish him. But the inquisitional executions do.
And why shouldn't it be. It alone shows what Calvin really was; a cruel, murderous theocrat.
Calvin wanted that the council show mercy in its execution method, by sword instead of burning. Calvin was overruled and chided for leniency.
What a humanitarian.
you=your
You're doing a masterful job of personifying the type of ridiculous, fallacious argument that's being discussed. Bravo!
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Here is something meritorious.
As I was listening last night, I was thinking of you all on this thread and want to recommend it to your attention.
At Reformed Theological Seminary there is a link to their iTunes store/library, all free of charge, which contains a really good 4 part lecture by Dr Frank James, called “The Calvin I never Knew”. It is worth the listen/download.
http://itunes.rts.edu/
Hit “Click to launch iTunes” on the left of the 3 choices.
After iTunes opens the RTS page, look at the lower left hand box for the course and click! There is much worthy there. Enjoy!
Also there is a 3 part lecture by D A Carson on The New Perspective on Paul....
Contained in the upper left hand box called Seminar Series.
: )
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