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To: stfassisi; Kolokotronis
I know,but how would Mary be superior to eve [sic] who was created sinless?

The Orthodox do not consider them ontologically the same. In the Eastern tradition, going back to the early Church, the East celebrates the Dormition of the Theotokos, a feast unknown in the west, that deal with Mary's death and assumption.

From very early on, the Orthodox East always believed that Mary died and on the third day was assumed to heaven, body and soul. If she were ontological equal to Eve, how could she die unless she sinned?

I understand that the Catholic 20th century dogma of the Assumption of Mary leaves the possibility of her death open, neither denying it nor confirming it, which is in itself—as a possibility—an ontological curiosity if not an outright paradox.

The Orthodox consider Mary superior to Eve because, for one, Eve had everything going for her and blew it! Mary had to overcome much greater hurtles precisely because she was not ontologically created like Eve, who through complete and willing obedience and devotion to God, unlike any other human, overcame her fallen nature even if she couldn't lose it.

Se is therefore the saint of saints, as human as we are, the object of our veneration and respect, the best among among us, a real example of what is humanly possible.

She is not some creation that is simply "sin-proofed," else what makes her human like the rest of us? For if she really were made immaculate at the moment of her own conception, and remained so throughout her whole life, she would not need a Savior, as neither did Adam or Eve.

118 posted on 07/14/2009 3:53:00 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50

In order for eve to be disobedient she had to freely fall from perfection by not following the will of God and thus sin-in order for Mary to overturn eve’s disobedience and become the New Eve she had to overcome sin through obedience to the will of God in order to become the New Eve

I really see it as this simple if your going to accept Mary as the New Eve. It makes no sense any other way to me.

The east accepts Mary as the New Eve, Right?

The eastern early Church fathers certainly did write about Mary as the New Eve.

You’re never going to convince me that Mary was not sinless because it makes no sense to me that Christ would enter the world through anything other than perfection


121 posted on 07/14/2009 8:42:54 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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