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To: MarianoApologeticus
I am very surprised that you purport to have read, at least some portions of, 2nd Samuel and think that the retribution was “not because he took someone else’s wife” when the entire point of the chapter, Samuel’s parable and God’s condemnation is precisely because he took someone else’s wife.

It's not the fact that he took someone else's wife, but the manner by which he did, that angered God. You miss the point that the OT God does not seem to mind if someone just "takes" someone else's wife, but how it is done.

And then the "just" punishment for David is to have his other wives raped by his neighbor! It doesn't get much better than that...

When a new king began to reign everyone in the kingdom—male, female, farmer, soldier, wife, husband, etc.—was now under his rule

I guess that makes it right. That's the society the OT God seems to like. Why are we not imitating Biblical societies then?

You read that God gave “gave David Saul’s wives” and read into the text that He meant for them to be David’s wives. Moreover, you think this because you do not read for context, or so it seems, and you cannot, apparently, imaging what else it means. Yet, Saul’s wives, his concubines, had the job of taking care of the palace (2nd Samuel chapters 15, 16 and 20).

He left them behind. Did you miss that part? "So the king went out and all his household with him. But the king left ten concubines to keep the house" (2 Sam 15;16)

But also, conveniently, you leave out 2 Sam 5:13 which says "Meanwhile David took more concubines and wives from Jerusalem, after he came from Hebron; and more sons and daughters were born to David."

it was against the law for Israeli kings to have more than one wife

The OT is full of Israel's kings with more than one wife.

You are clearly angry at your own misunderstandings

I am not angry at all. And unlike you I am not reading another poster's mind (which is against FR Religion Forum rules, fyi).

Lastly, I wonder upon what premise do you condemn rape?

Violence, harm, cruelty, inflicting pain, demeaning, not something anyone sane wants done to him/her, counterproductive, antisocial, etc., etc.

50 posted on 09/30/2009 12:01:33 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50
Thanks for responding again.

You have asked some good question and yet, I note that they are based on common misconceptions and could be alleviated by some basic considerations of the Bible’s contents, concepts and contexts.

I am not certain how God does not seem to mind if David took someone else's wife when God had commanded that Kings not have more than one wife.

I am also not certain how the society that God seems to like is one in which when a new king began to reign everyone in the kingdom was now under his rule when we consider that the only reason that there was this sort of kingship in Israel is because the people wanted it and God allowed them to exercise their free will.

This was not God’s idea:

Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah, and said to him, “Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.” But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” So Samuel prayed to the LORD. And the LORD said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them. According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt, even to this day—with which they have forsaken Me and served other gods—so they are doing to you also. Now therefore, heed their voice. However, you shall solemnly forewarn them, and show them the behavior of the king who will reign over them. (1st Samuel 8:4-9).

We are not imitating Biblical societies because this sort of society was agreed upon by those who chose to make the covenant with God. Note the chronological terminology and differentiation between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Such a society was for the Hebrews who lived in Israel millennia ago.

Yes, "the king…left ten concubines to keep the house" because their job was to keep the house. Indeed, when David took more concubines and wives he was breaking the law, as I already noted before you brought this up. Indeed, the Old Testament is “full of Israel's kings with more than one wife” and they all broke the law. Note that description does not equal prescription. Since it was prescribed that they do not do so and it is described that they did so it shows that their actions are being condemned by the Bible which is reporting their lawbreaking.

I actually did not know that mind reading is against forum rules. I inferred emotive reactions in your past comments and note that these were based on misunderstandings of the Bible’s statements.

I am afraid that you did not answer to upon what you premise your condemnation of rape but only listed more things that you condemn.

Upon what premise do you condemn: violence?

Upon what premise do you condemn: harm?

Upon what premise do you condemn: cruelty?

Upon what premise do you condemn: inflicting pain?

Upon what premise do you condemn: demeaning?

Upon what premise do you condemn: doing something insane to people or having insane people wanting certain things done to them?

Upon what premise do you condemn: being counterproductive?

Upon what premise do you condemn: being antisocial?

51 posted on 10/09/2009 11:40:02 AM PDT by MarianoApologeticus (Exegesis, not eisegesis)
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