How to testify

Lds Church News ^ | Sept. 19, 2009

[Colofornian]

SNIP

Sharing testimonies is an important part of the Latter-day Saint experience. We bear testimonies in many settings — in the home with family and among friends and associates or in missionary experiences. In Church, one Sunday is set aside every month for the bearing of testimonies during sacrament meetings.

SNIP

In his address at the October 2004 general conference, Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve...said that his experience throughout the Church leads him to worry that too many members' testimonies linger on "I am thankful," and "I love," and too few are able to say with humble but sincere clarity, "I know." As a result, he noted, meetings sometimes lack the testimony-rich, spiritual underpinnings that stir the soul and have meaningful, positive impact on the lives of all those who hear them.

He...counseled, "We need to replace stories, travelogues and lectures with pure testimonies. Those who are entrusted to speak and teach in our meetings need to do so with doctrinal power that will be both heard and felt, lifting the spirits and edifying our people."

SNIP

As we listen to general conference this October, we will hear many bear pure testimony. Numerous times over the years, we have heard President Thomas S. Monson, first as an apostle and now as president of the Church, bear such testimony. May we, as Primary children sing, be inclined to "follow the prophet" in our endeavor to nurture, strengthen and share our testimonies that we have a Heavenly Father who loves us, that Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith was the prophet who was raised up to restore the fullness of the everlasting gospel...

[ShadowAce]

OK, apparently I took it as a personal question, and you wanted an official pronouncement from teh LDS church, no problem.

Hmmm. Interesting. Considering that you are a Mormon, shouldn't the two definitions (yours, personally, and the official pronouncement) be the same?

From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, without flesh and bone

The Father has a body? Really? Where in Scripture does it say that?

[ShadowAce]

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Mark 15: 34.

You do realize, that Jesus was quoting Scripture, don't you? He was referring to Psalm 22. Since Scripture in those days did not have Chapter and verse specifications, they referred to passages by the first line or two.

The Holy Ghost is also a God ...

The Holy Ghost is a God? How many gods does the LDS recognize? It's separate from the Father and Son? Are the Father and Son separate also?

[ejonesie22]

We have been over this before, in the LDS god is god, Jesus is god and the holy ghost is god. (we don't deal with all the other gods on the other planets nor the LDS who have left this world and won their rights as gods of other worlds, too much counting)

The LDS is not polytheist because there is only one god, there is just several of them.

I can't see how that is not clear to anyone and why one must believe in the terrible trinity thing...

(I know, God is confused too...)

[ejonesie22]

The Father has a body? Really? Where in Scripture does it say that?

Second Chapter of Burns...

Or the Gospel of Morgan...

Your choice.

(Hey, if the LDS can canonize fiction...)

[DelphiUser]

You do realize, that Jesus was quoting Scripture, don't you? He was referring to Psalm 22. Since Scripture in those days did not have Chapter and verse specifications, they referred to passages by the first line or two

Yes, I knew that, I cut and pasted from the LDS website, remember? BTW, the Chinese do the same thing with well known sayings, and yes, I have learned Chinese.

The Holy Ghost is a God? How many gods does the LDS recognize? It's separate from the Father and Son? Are the Father and Son separate also?

Read the post? There is one Godhead (A word that is actually in the KJV Bible) which consists of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy ghost. These three are one in heart might mind and strength, the same way one is used through out the bible, man and wife -- one, the 12 apostles -- One, the members of the church -- one. It's not my fault that Constantine wanted to appease the Greek philosophers and make it one amorphous substance without body parts or passions.

Consider the following scripture:John 17:21-22

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jesus makes a specific analogy with the oneness the Disciples should have with the oneness he shares with the Father. You may disagree with our interpretation of the bible, but there is definite support for what we believe in there.

[DelphiUser]

Hmmm. Interesting. Considering that you are a Mormon, shouldn't the two definitions (yours, personally, and the official pronouncement) be the same?

No, Mine is a personal relationship, as opposed to the "official" that applies to everyone. Mine needs to be compatible, but this is no different than any church, you have varying degrees of understanding and within limits of belief in every church.

Click some links in the post will you? They link to it in what I pasted. Sheesh!

[ShadowAce]

Yes, the term "Godhead" is in the KJV.

However, it is not defined in that version as you have defined it. Read multiple versions (KJV, NIV, NKJV, NASB, etc) of those two scriptures (that term only exists in two verses), and see what the term "Godhead" actually means.

It does not mean what you have stated it to mean.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

ShadowAce,

Welcome to the ongoing discussion with members
of the cult of mormonism. It is an amazing journey.

I have some suggestions for you:

1. Don’t expect a mormon to tell you what they believe -
you are probably not “ready”. In fact, they are encouraged
to lie to you, if necessary, for your own good.

2. Don’t think you can use the tools of logic to converse
with a mormon. Think of it more as trying to nail Jello to the wall.

3. Math is not applicable - particularly when asking them about their gods. They have three that are one “in spirit”.
Their world view has room for trillions of gods. In fact, they aspire to godhood of their own, complete with planet, worshipers and universal party sleep overs with other gods.

4. The Bible, to a mormonite, only means what they impose on the words. There is no context, historical background, greek grammar, etc. It is simply seeing a word and imposing predecided meaning. As such, there isn’t what Christians would refer to as Bible Study. It is more like an easter egg hunt, where they bring their own die for each egg they find.

In short, it is talking to mormons is more like being Alice in Wonderland than a real conversation.

Again, welcome. The more the merrier!

Best,
ampu

[DelphiUser]

It does not mean what you have stated it to mean.

I believe it does.

You say potato, and I say 'tater.

Please tell me where the definition of the Trinity shows up in one place in the scriptures. You can't the Trinity is an interpretation of the scriptures.

This is why it's so disingenuous for antis (and I mean of every religion, not just of mine) to try to tear down another religion that has a differing interpretation from theirs.

Say they are wrong, fine.

Teach your flock that their interpretation is mistaken, fine.

Make the difference in Dogma a tenet of your religion, fine.

Don't go out in public and challenge them to prove their interpretation, don't call them sinners and damn them to Hell. They just have another interpretation than you. Give it a rest, Jesus does not want contention among the people who believe on his name, quite the reverse, in spite of our differences in interpretation of the Bible, all Christians should get along as well as the different factions of say the Buddhists. The last thing we need is to act like the Muslims and declare holy war on each other.

[svcw]

This is why it's so disingenuous for antis (and I mean of every religion, not just of mine) to try to tear down another religion that has a differing interpretation from theirs.

When joseph smith is worshiped as equal to Christ, that is not a different interpretation that is blasphemy.

[ejonesie22]

[Elsie]

There is one Godhead (A word that is actually in the KJV Bible) which consists of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy ghost.

TWO with fleshly bodies and one Spirit.

3 BEINGS...

[Elsie]

Are the TWO fleshly bodied 1/3’s of the Godhead the same in substance?

[Elsie]

They just have another interpretation than you.

Yeah - we are corrupted apostates and sons of perdition while they are on their way to being exalted and populating their own planet.

[svcw]

the Chinese do the same thing with well known sayings, and yes, I have learned Chinese.

As someone with an incomplete mind (as you put it), please explain why knowing Chinese has anything to do with lds.

[ejonesie22]

Don't go out in public and challenge them to prove their interpretation, don't call them sinners and damn them to Hell. They just have another interpretation than you. Give it a rest, Jesus does not want contention among the people who believe on his name, quite the reverse, in spite of our differences in interpretation of the Bible, all Christians should get along as well as the different factions of say the Buddhists. The last thing we need is to act like the Muslims and declare holy war on each other.

Now ladies and gentlelurkers that is classic irony, indeed it is a masterpiece, the very definitive version of the art form.

DU, you awe me.

(BTW whether we say potato, potatoe or tater we non LDS are referring to the tuberous root served as a side to many dishes, whilst you maybe referring to that, or a rutabaga or a Toyota depending on need...)

[greyfoxx39]

Don't go out in public and challenge them to prove their interpretation, don't call them sinners and damn them to Hell. They just have another interpretation than you. Give it a rest, Jesus does not want contention among the people who believe on his name, quite the reverse, in spite of our differences in interpretation of the Bible, all Christians should get along as well as the different factions of say the Buddhists. The last thing we need is to act like the Muslims and declare holy war on each other.

Confounds False Doctrine

Second, the Book of Mormon exposes the enemies of Christ. It confounds false doctrines and lays down contention. (See 2 Ne. 3:12.) It fortifies the humble followers of Christ against the evil designs, strategies, and doctrines of the devil in our day. The type of apostates in the Book of Mormon are similar to the type we have today. God, with his infinite foreknowledge, so molded the Book of Mormon that we might see the error and know how to combat the false educational, political, religious, and philosophical concepts of our time.

The Book of Mormon Is the Word of God

Sounds like a declaration of war to me, from mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson.

Let us know when the 60,000 missionaries who are out their performing the tasks of "calling them sinners and damning them to hell." are recalled from the "battlefield".

Mormons are convinced that the only souls, living or dead, who will reach the throne of God MUST be "worthy" in the mormon manner. If THAT isn't damning to hell, I don't know what is.

[DelphiUser]

When joseph smith is worshiped as equal to Christ, that is not a different interpretation that is blasphemy.

Please show where Joseph Smith was in either of my definitions as equal to Jesus Christ...

[DelphiUser]

Are the TWO fleshly bodied 1/3’s of the Godhead the same in substance?

The Godhead is three personages, one in heart, might, mind and strength. Three become one, and hopefully we become one with them too, at least that is the plan and the purpose of the atonement.

BTW, atonement -- at-one-ment: to make one with God.

You might want to read Atonement a tract from BibleTract.org, they have the atonement right from our perspective anyway, the atonement makes us one with God. Jesus was sinless, ergo, he was always one with God. Sin separates us from God.

[DelphiUser]

They just have another interpretation than you. Yeah - we are corrupted apostates and sons of perdition while they are on their way to being exalted and populating their own planet.

LC, can you get anything right?

You were never a member, never had the truth, therefore you cannot be apostate.

It takes way more knowledge to become a son of perdition than I have, so you should be safe there too.

I have no intention of inheriting a planet, I intend to inherit all that my Father hath as promised by the Bible.

If you are going to rip on us, at least get it right, I'm quite sure you can make us look bad while telling the truth, would you mind trying that?