Me: Well, then have a fit with Romans 6:23 (not me): For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
DU: Nope, no fit, the resurrection is a free gift, Atonement is something you have to keep the commandments for, it's all clear to me, because it's all been explained by the church and confirmed by the Holy Ghost.
Do you normally twist verses like this (Romans 6:23) just to stick to pure Mormon doctrine? Let's hit the rewind button on that portion of our conversation to get you to stick to Scripture instead of openly twisting it. Here, I'll highlight it:
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom. 6:23)
Questions:
Does Rom. 6:23 talk about the "atonement" (No? Then why did you mention it in response?)
Does Rom. 6:23 talk about the "resurrection" (No? Then why did you mention it in response?)
Did you mention these 'cause it was your only way to acknowledge that, yes, Lds think at least one salvation thing from God is a gift?
Were you trying to avoid the complete image of some earth-to-heaven ladder climber?
So let's get back to the "eternal life" mentioned in Romans 6:23. Is that a gift or not? Yes or no?
[And if you still have trouble deciphering what Mormon doctrinaires do with the phrase "eternal life" and how it's defined, here, allow me to cite an official Lds publication, True to the Faith: "Eternal life, or exaltation, is to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, where we will live in God's presence & continue as families..." (True to the Faith, 2004 p. 52)]
Simply put, you already knew the Mormon doctrinal formula of "eternal life" = exaltation = celestial kingdom = becoming of godhood, didn't you?
Likewise, you already knew that in the Mormon church's eyes, resurrection DOES NOT = eternal life, didn't you? Here's the proof:
"But resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God. Our sins make us unclean and unfit to dwell in God's presence, and we need His grace to purify and perfect us 'after all we can do'(2 Nephi 25:23)." (True to the Faith, p. 77)
DU, knowing your own sins that "make [you] unclean and unfit to dwell in God's presence" -- have you performed up to the standard of 2 Nephi 25:23? Have you done EVERYTHING you can do relationally, spiritually, emotionally, physically? Everything? Everything?
The resurrection was a given at the start. It was going to happen regardless of Christ. What did change is what the resurrection will lead to:
Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Readers will note here there are only two options listed here - smoking or non-smoking. The scriptures are clear - the unjust go to hell. The just to heaven - there is no mormononic segregation here. Do some word searches, the bible only speaks of two things - just/unjust, salvation/condemnation, etc.
Atonement is something you have to keep the commandments for, it's all clear to me, because it's all been explained by the church and confirmed by the Holy Ghost.
Mormon 'atonement' means you are a debtor to Jesus and are being forced to pay Him back for His sacrifice on the cross. They take the gift and make it something that has to be earned or payed back. Common sense check, if you are given a gift that you have to pay for - is that a gift? For mormons, grace is irrelevant, as are any biblical injunctions to the contrary.
DU, knowing your own sins that "make [you] unclean and unfit to dwell in God's presence" -- have you performed up to the standard of 2 Nephi 25:23? Have you done EVERYTHING you can do relationally, spiritually, emotionally, physically? Everything? Everything?
Have you done “all” you can do for salvation?
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”—James 2:10
Have you achieved perfection “in this mortal life”?
Men and women who live in mortality and who have heard the gospel here have had their day, their seventy years to put their lives in harmony, to perform the ordinances, to repent and to perfect their lives.” —The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 8, 314
Have you repeated a sin after asking for forgiveness?
“By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins —behold, he will confess them and forsake them.” —Doctrine and Covenants, Section 58:43
Have you cleared “all ungodliness” out of your life?
“Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you,,/u> that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ.…” —Moroni 10:32
“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven.…Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” —Alma 11:37
In light of those last two verses DU, unless you are perfectly sinless this very moment with absolutely no ungodliness in your life, then even grace and salvation are denied to you.