Posted on 12/03/2009 3:47:11 PM PST by NYer
Formidable decisions ... as Catholics, we rely upon a body of professionals who can sort through this, within the context of Christ's teachings, and arrive at a decision. With 40,000+ non-Catholic denominations, one can only wonder how they can ever reach a truly Christ based determination.
**”for people of faith, and Christians in particular, we know that technology is not to be our God, and technology is most definitely not our Savior.**
Key line in this most interesting article!
We can live longer so that we can live longer. Why?
I think that I’d appreciate a pill (shot/therapy/etc) that would keep me in perfect health, but require me to drop dead at 70.
I’ve been living with chronic illness for decades and I’d shave 5-10 years off my life to have a higher quality of life.
This is leftist thinking.
Unless there are laws passed to limit availability of this technology it will eventually become available to all.
In a free market society competition and advances in technology will always bring down the price of any good or service to the point where anyone who wants it can afford it unless there are impediments to the development of that product by a overweening government.
I believe we're up to 62,000 now...
I am in total support of your statement.....
Doncha think this is an odd choice of threads for someone to toss mud at Protestants from? Why does no one ever give us credit for our ecumenical efforts, that brought us closer together from our all-time high of a zillion denominations just a couple of years ago!
I have to laugh at NYer's claim that there's 40,000 denominations again. She claimed there were 33,000 in June of 2007, with "more springing up every day" in August 2007. Yet by November 2007, she'd dropped the number down to 20,000. Now in September of 2009, she's raised the number up to "30,000 and growing". And then two months later, she claimed she was going to post [40,000] but "chose to go more conservative". Up and down, up and down we go! Wheeee!
She's still leaving out the 242 Catholic churches that call themselves Christian but all disagree with each other. How inexplicably convenient to exclude them, when they're included in the same source doc!
Did you also notice she's reverted to calling them "denominations" again? Last time she just called them "churches"....
If the scientists genetically or surgically create beings which are no longer human, but are human-animal hybrids or human-electronic chimera, it is open to question whether those beings can be saved.
“With 40,000+ non-Catholic denominations, one can only wonder how they can ever reach a truly Christ based determination. “
NYer, we’ve been through this before, and you KNOW 40,000+ is a dishonest number. You should be ashamed to continue posting what you know is not true.
As I have before to you, I post a link going into the details of this dishonest claim you continue to repeat:
http://www.ntrmin.org/30000denominations.htm
Shame on you.
Barrett, writing in 1982, does indeed cite a figure of 20,780 denominations in 1980,
Do you prefer the number 20,000+?
The point is that Jesus Christ established one Church. According to Scripture, Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23). We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2; Romans 15:5). There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many. For the Church is Christ's Body and Christ only had one Body, not many. Also, since the Church is Christ's Bride (Ephesians 5:29), can Christ be married to more than one wife (essentially a spiritual form of the the sin of polygamy)? No, Christ can only have one wife (i.e., one Church, not many).
20,000 ... 30,000 ... 40,000 ... it makes no difference how you raise or lower that number since it is greater than the number 1.
And I thought high school sucked in the '80s.
We do NOT have 40,000 different versions of truth . . . we only have 20,780 versions of truth . . . so THERE, papist!
LOL
It’s becoming so complicated an issue that the average person must have difficulty comprehending it all. And this is just the beginning.
as Catholics, we rely upon a body of professionals who can sort through this, within the context of Christ's teachings, and arrive at a decision
From the article:
“According to Barrett’s calculations, there are 8,196 denominations within Protestantism...”
“...there might actually be 223 distinct denominations within Roman Catholicism! Yet that is precisely the number that Barrett cites for Roman Catholicism. Moreover, Barrett indicates in the case of Roman Catholicism that even this number can be broken down further to produce 2,942 separate “denominations”—and that was only in 1970! In that same year there were only 3,294 Protestant denominations; a difference of only 352 denominations.”
So - how many hundreds or thousands of denominations are there among Roman Catholics?
The point is that an honest person tries to compare apples with apples. If Barrett says there are as many as 2,942 denominations among Roman Catholics in 1970, and that in the same year there were as many as 3,294 denominations among Protestants, then Barrett is obviously using a strange definition of ‘denomination’. Why don’t you lament the lack of unity from hundreds or thousands of Roman Catholic denominations?
“In reality, Barrett indicates that what he means by “denomination” is any ecclesial body that retains a “jurisdiction” (i.e., semi-autonomy). As an example, Baptist denominations comprise approximately 321 of the total Protestant figure.”
Frankly, if he understood Baptists, this approach would give him 42,000 denominations among the Southern Baptist Convention alone, since every congregation in the SBC is totally autonomous. So if you define a denomination as falling underneath a specific human (or group of humans in a church office), then the SBC alone has 40,000 denominations. I don’t think the average non-Baptist understands how totally independent each congregation is...
“Barrett identifies seven major ecclesiastical “blocs” under which these 22,190 distinct denominations fall (Barrett, 14-15): (1) Roman Catholicism, which accounts for 223 denominations; (2) Protestant, which accounts for 8,196 denominations; (3) Orthodox, which accounts for 580 denominations; (4) Non-White Indigenous, which accounts for 10,956 denominations; (5) Anglican, which accounts for 240 denominations; (6) Marginal Protestant, which includes Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, New Age groups, and all cults (Barrett, 14), and which accounts for 1,490 denominations; and (7) Catholic (Non-Roman), which accounts for 504 denominations.”
I don’t know what “Non-White Indigenous” would be, but I”m guessing it isn’t Christian if it excludes white folk. Marginal Protestant, with 1490 denominations, seems to be all non-Christian.
The body of Christ is one, and all Christians are a part - but just as there are millions - or a billion+ - individuals making up one body, so the multiple congregations make up one body, united under the Head who is Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ never set up a human as ‘Vicar of Christ’. That role was assumed by the early church to be the Holy Spirit’s, per the direction given by Jesus Christ.
But I called you dishonest because you knew, in advance of your post, that there is no validity in the 30 or 40K number derived from Barrett. You don’t believe there are hundreds or thousands of separate Roman Catholic denominations, so why do you use his numbers for Protestants? That is Hadley CRU level dishonesty.
Please try to remember that the word translated ‘church’ in the New Testament means ‘assembly’, or ‘religious assembly’, if used in the typical Septuagint use. It is used for a secular riot in Acts:
“When they heard this they were enraged and were crying out, “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” 29So the city was filled with the confusion, and they rushed together into the theater, dragging with them Gaius and Aristarchus, Macedonians who were Paul’s companions in travel. 30But when Paul wished to go in among the crowd, the disciples would not let him. 31And even some of the Asiarchs, who were friends of his, sent to him and were urging him not to venture into the theater. 32 Now some cried out one thing, some another, for the assembly was in confusion, and most of them did not know why they had come together. 33Some of the crowd prompted Alexander, whom the Jews had put forward. And Alexander, motioning with his hand, wanted to make a defense to the crowd. 34But when they recognized that he was a Jew, for about two hours they all cried out with one voice, “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” - Acts 19
The assembly in verse 32 is the same word translated church elsewhere. It does not imply a structure with a human head controlling those below him.
Among Protestants, you would have the Sola Scriptura types and those who are not. Those who are not are liberal Protestants, most of whom are CINO - Christian in Name Only, since they hold the title but not the belief. You can think of them as Protestant Pelosies.
Among the Sola Scriptura Protestants, the only doctrinal differences are over infant baptism (Baptist vs others), the predestination vs free will debate (often found inside individual congregations), and...I’m coming up empty. Pentecostal vs non-Pentecostal? That goes on inside the Catholic Church as well.
But you have very little doctrinal differences between Sola Scriptura believing churches.
Then Barrett is wrong! There are NO denominations within Roman Catholicism. If anything, "Roman Catholic" is a rite unto itself. It is the rite of the Latin Church. Hence the reason for posting this thread in the first place to clarify the confusion that exists amongst non-Catholics and even Catholics alike.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.