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To: daniel1212

With much of what you say I agree, at least insofar as it does not contradict the Catohlic teaching on justification. It is true that works of the law, works done out of obligation, for social gain, and similar do not save. Works done out of love of God and fellow man save in some combination with faith. It is not unorthodox to say that works follow faith, but at the same time it is not unorthodox to say that faith follows works. The truth is that faith and works cooperate with grace and result, hopefully, in salvation.

What of the prooftexts that say that “whosoever believes in Christ will be saved”? In absence of the direct and multiparagraph teaching on justification by works such as Matthew 25 (or shorter version in Romans 2), and in absence of James 2, where again the doctrine of sola fide is expressly rejected, — in a vaccuum that is, these short prooftexts that praise faith and do not mention works would perhaps allow us to think along the Protestant lines and still remian faithful to the Scripture. As it stands, however, they are prooftexts that point to the importance of faith as we progress toward salvation, but not of faith being alone the criterion or ground for justification. Note, too, that obedience to the commandments of Christ and therefore to the rules of His Church are a component of faith. Therefore one whose faith is properly formed will work the works that Christ wants him to work, and he who relies on faith alone but would not do these works does not have a well-formed faith.

Further, none of that is to supplant the fact that the strength to resist sin and the grace that saves us is transmitted through the sacraments of the Church, primarily baptism, penance, and the Eucharist. For that, again, we have a categorical scrupture that says so, and I cited it in my previous post or posts.


82 posted on 12/13/2009 8:04:26 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
Further, none of that is to supplant the fact that the strength to resist sin and the grace that saves us is transmitted through the sacraments of the Church, primarily baptism, penance, and the Eucharist.

This is my challenge to our non-Catholic brethren: How many times do you have to repent of the same sin before you recognize your theology does not work?

83 posted on 12/13/2009 8:15:37 PM PST by papertyger (Representation without taxation is tyranny!)
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To: annalex

Those who rely on faith alone but do not have works do not have saving faith, but it is by faith that righteousness is imputed, not works.

As for Mt. 25, one self-evident principal of sound exegesis is that ambiguous texts are interpreted in the light of the clearest teaching, and in this case it is Paul who is laying down systematic soteriology, and most precisely deals with the exact issue of the basis of justification, regarding faith versus works. Mt 25 is not primarily teaching soteriology, but does reveal those whose works manifest they possess saving faith, while text such as “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven”, (Mat 5:3) deals with those who have the kind of heart that call upon Christ effectually for salvation.

If you simply form your soteriology out the the gospels, then you will have to reconcile having to require one soul to sell all he has, while another gives only half to the poor, while another shows compassion to the afflicted, while another just humbly cries for mercy, and another just believes and tells others about Jesus, and another is told the word of Gos is to believe. All these are reconciled (primarily) in Paul’s specific teaching, which Peter called scripture, and which reveals that it is faith out of a humble and contrite heart that appropriates justification, and thus is manifested by works of faith, done is response to salvation, not in order to acquire it.

>The truth is that faith and works cooperate with grace and result, hopefully, in salvation.<

Not quite. You first cooperate with grace when you repent and believe, and thus have eternal life, and if so, it will be shown by overall following Christ in obedience.

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:” (Rom 5:1)

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” (1 John 5:13)

Because a believer has eternal life, having passed from death unto life by believing, (Jn. 5:24), then he can and will live it out with the right motive. However, the “these things” of 5:13 refer to what John wrote in this letter, delineating “things which accompany salvation”. (Heb. 6:9).

>the strength to resist sin and the grace that saves us is transmitted through the sacraments of the Church, primarily baptism, penance, and the Eucharist. ... scrupture says so<

I dealt with baptism and the Eucharist already, the latter in post 66, if briefly. Your beliefs are the results of very poor exegesis. If i must expand, see below.


84 posted on 12/13/2009 9:17:14 PM PST by daniel1212 (Hear the word of the gospel, and believe", (Acts 15:7) + flee from those who hold another as supreme)
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