Posted on 12/26/2009 3:23:12 PM PST by Teófilo
It's still a sect/cult no matter how small or sui generis. Their beliefs or practices are not even the same; it's a typical heterodox Protestant community centered around some Jewish practices mixed with a self-styled brand of Christianity.
You'd think.
Well, to begin with, how can you possibly have a heterodox Protestant community? I do agree though, that what we have could be tantamount to an ultra Pentecostal progression, taking elements of Christianity and Judaism, mixing them together and coming up with something unrecognizable to either.
It's heterodox because they believe all sorts of things under the same label. This concept is not alien even to the post-Vatican II Catholic Church. Heterodoxy is manifested among such (nominal) Catholics as Nancy Pelosi, or some of the Wiccan nuns in pantsuits. They sort of make their own doctrine on various dogmatic issues and still claim to be Catholic. This is, of course, incompatible with Catholicism but not with Protestant sects/cults.
Thus, although they are relatively few in number, the diversity of beliefs doesn't lack among Messianic communities. Not all so-called Messianic "Jews" believe that Jesus is God. Not all of them observe the same rituals or dietary restrictions, etc. Like most Protestant communities, the doctrine is "winged" to an individual taste.
But this heterodoxy is not limited to fringe groups only. It can be found in mainline Protestant denominations, I would say in abundance, although most Protestants will tell you they haven never really encountered anyone with far-flung beliefs among various Protestant denominations—certainly not "doctrinally significant." (Mr Rogers comes to mind).
For instance, here you have an Episcopalian site which openly doubts the divinity of Jesus. I find that "doctrinally significant."
“although most Protestants will tell you they haven never really encountered anyone with far-flung beliefs among various Protestant denominations—certainly not “doctrinally significant.” (Mr Rogers comes to mind).”
Horse pucky! I’ve always specified Sola Scriptura type churches, not Protestant. I am well aware that many mainline Protestant churches couldn’t find a Bible using a flashlight & a map, let alone read it or believe it.
And among churches that actually believe Sola Scriptura, the doctrinal disputes are primarily charismatic vs non, infant baptism or not, and predestination vs free will. And my experience with charismatics, including in my family, is that they don’t go with sola scriptura, since their experience is their real guide. And lets face it - it is really hard to argue that scripture AFFIRMS infant baptism!
So that leaves PreD vs FW...
I don't know if you have always been specific enough when posting, though. When I made my comment regarding the unlikelihood of Protestant orthodoxy, I meant that there is no set belief system, doctrines, practices, or anything else in the Protestant pantheon.
That is why I personally regard the LDS as Protestant but not Christian (even though the Church does not specify whether they are Protestant or not - how can it?) because they came out of the Protestant movement, and still maintain a version of Scripture. The Protestant movement came about when people started to write their own doctrines and beliefs that were different from the Church's. The first group of Protestants had most of the things and beliefs that make up Christian. But as succeeding innovations and splinter groups with ever more creative theologies and beliefs came about, one might say that they became increasingly non Christian.
But it is difficult to pin it down. What is a Christian? A believer in Christ? Sure. What Christ? Was Christ God? Did He only appear to have a body? Was He a glorified man who became a god? Is the Holy Spirit God? Must you be baptized for salvation? Is there only one God with three modes of appearance? Is there only one God with three names? Must you confess your sins? To whom? Is there a specific priesthood with bishops and deacons? Must you eat the Body and Blood of Christ? Must you tithe 10%? Must you refrain from musical instruments at your services and go a capella only? Can you be fully and publically homosexual? What is the dividing line? Solas? TULIP? A point in time?
So what do you call Episcopalians in my reference? Non-sola-scriptura? Every time I read something Episcopalian they refer to the Bible. Who exactly is "sola-scriptura" according to your map? Just for future reference, in case I find another example of "doctrinally significant" divergence...
I gues you just have to be "Baptist," whatever that means.
Why do so many seek an illusory convergence?
Who says that God broke a covenant?
If you and someone else have a mutual agreement with expectations from both sides, are you the only one who can break it?
Of course not: the other party can break it by failing to fulfill the expectations of them.
For example, by rejecting Christ.
Where Christ is central, Christianity doesn’t need be the “new” anything!
It is true that the universality of Christianity is at odds with any ongoing claim of special favor for groups embracing religious paths that don’t include Christ.
There are Christians who are just dying to get cozy with the Jews, religiously speaking. I suppose it's a "certificate of authenticity" of sorts if they can show that Christians, too, are just like the Jews.
But I have never met a Jewish person with similar inclinations towards Christians. At best, Jews will see Christians as a bad imitation, as a wacky sect that stole Jewish scriptures and reinterpreted them retrograde style based on their New Testament, after having redefined many of the Jewish terms to suit their new religion.
I find Jewish attitude towards Christians one of painful resignation. Imagine how the Christians would feel is there were only 15 or so million of them, and over 2 billion Mormons!
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