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To: blue-duncan
None of them save or have the authority of the inspired scriptures and ultimately, it will only be whether the individual has trusted Christ alone for salvation that has eternal significance.

Okay, serious question: What if someone does not believe the statement above?

Note, the question is NOT about the person's trust in Christ alone, but about his thinking about his relationship with Christ, salvation,etc.

270 posted on 01/05/2010 9:45:01 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

” but about his thinking about his relationship with Christ, salvation,etc.”

If he is trusting Christ alone for salvation, that is what eternally matters. In a poor paraphrase of rabbi Hillel, “all else is commentary”. Right now I am wrestling with N.T. Wright’s “new perspective” on justification but it does not affect my standing in Christ.

I did a double take with your “Okay, serious question”. I had to make sure it was really you. How have you been and are you surviving the cold?


272 posted on 01/05/2010 9:57:53 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Mad Dawg; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg
BD: None of them [creeds, traditions, pronouncements of Councils, church fathers, or dogma] save or have the authority of the inspired scriptures and ultimately, it will only be whether the individual has trusted Christ alone for salvation that has eternal significance.

MD: Okay, serious question: What if someone does not believe the statement above? Note, the question is NOT about the person's trust in Christ alone, but about his thinking about his relationship with Christ, salvation,etc.

That is an interesting question, MD. I would agree with BD that faith in Christ alone for salvation is absolutely essential. But to expand it a bit, we would need to agree on the correct Christ and what "salvation" means. I don't see much problem among Catholics and Reformers as to the former. Most FR Catholics and the Catholic Catechism have convinced me that we agree on the identity of Christ, although we have profound disagreement on many of the things Christ did or did not do.

The next issue occurring to me is WHO does the actual, physical saving? As you know, Reformers would say that Christ does all of it, 100% of it, with no help from or conditions met through our own efforts. I have heard a shorthand for the Catholic faith that amounts to free will faith plus works results in salvation. That is, man cooperates with God and that collaboration results in salvation. Is that fair? If it is, then it sounds like man (including any activity by Mary) is partially responsible (due "credit") for his own salvation. If the relationship with Christ is one of unequals in which both work together and contribute to the desired goal (e.g., a boss and his subordinate work together to complete a project), then I would put that at least to the threshold of a disqualifying error.

However, another view might be that a person must have free will faith and do works and THEN God does all the saving Himself (e.g., a subordinate provides some facts and figures to his boss and his boss then completes the project by himself, taking and deserving all the credit). While I also strongly disagree with this view I would say it is materially different from the first. Is any of this responsive to the issue you were raising?

BTW, I was sorry to read of your illness and I really hope they figure out what's going on soon. I can imagine how frustrating it is to have something like that just keep going. I'll be praying for you. I hope that your being vaporized is of help. :)

344 posted on 01/06/2010 1:34:28 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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