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WHO REALLY IS 'ANTI-CATHOLIC?'
Alpha and Omega Ministries ^
| 1-23-10
| James Swan
Posted on 02/24/2010 9:36:26 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg
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To: roamer_1; xone
But I don't CARE what you believe. I care about what you can prove. If it cannot be proven, how can one interpretation be of any use against the other? .
I just gave you proof:
1. Scripture says that in the Commandments "I Am the Lord your God and you shall have no other gods before me" -- that God is one
2. Yet as Christians we say that Christ is God
3. Yet, as you point out, scripture shows that God the Father and Christ are separate.
So, how do you put 1,2 and 3 together?
Many remove statement 2 (Arius' belief). Uri seems to (please correct me if I'm wrong) not agree with statement 3.
If you agree to the above 3 statements, then what is the only logical conclusion you can come to? That the Godhead is one, yet three in "some" way, correct?
And, you said If the Father required a Roman Catholic sense of the Trinity, it would be very specifically laid out in the Scriptures -- I've pointed it out and will point out again -- this is not an exclusively Catholic sense of the Trinity but one shared by all Trinitarian Christians, whether Reformed or Baptist or Anglican or Catholic or Lutheran or Orthodox. Do we consider it to be precise? No
Do we consider it to be exclusive? No -- as I said, Reformed, Baptist etc. share the same belief
Superior? hmmm.... let's just say that all understanding in the nature of the Godhead has come from understanding what it is not!
When Marcion came along and said that the God of the OT was not the same as the God of the NT and quoted scripture for that (by tossing out th OT), we said "No, that's not correct, either by scripture or tradition"
When the gnostics said the same and added their bit about a Yabbaloath, the same
Then Arius came with his argument that Jesus was not God and this was shown to be scripturally and traditionally wrong
And so through Modalism, Monarchialism, Adoptionism etc.
We don't know and could never know the exact nature of the Godhead, but we can, through scripture and Holy Tradition, know what it is not.
1,021
posted on
02/26/2010 3:21:35 AM PST
by
Cronos
(Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
To: roamer_1
1. Do you agree with Uri that "The trinity is not supported by the Holy Word of G-d. "?
2. The Church believes in the Trinity. This is proven in Scripture and Tradition. We are not solo scriptura.
That the word "Trinity" is not there in the scriptures doesn't trouble us, but can be used by sola scriptura non-Trinitarians against sola scriptura Protestants
3. I'm not doubting your friends belief -- that only God can know. I stated that
What you state is not an exclusively "Roman Catholic" sense of the Trinity, but is a viewpoint shared by Baptists, Anglicans, Lutherans, Reformed, Zwinglists, Methodists, Orthodox, Orientals, Assyrians. This is the majority Christian concept. If you want to call them "not Christian", go ahead, that's your choice.
I called them "non-Trinitarian" and that "their view is not the same as the majority Christian view".
I asked you why you say "I will not criticize a Messianic Jew, nor a Lutheran, nor any that is in between except for the confusion" -- do you extend that non-criticism to Catholics and Orthodox on our opinions for the Trinity too?
1,022
posted on
02/26/2010 3:35:59 AM PST
by
Cronos
(Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
To: roamer_1
My criticism would take place upon the ground where tradition is elevated past, or is equal to, the Holy Word of God.
Tradition gave birth to scripture, yet is subordinate to it (just like Mary gave birth to Her God, yet was/is subordinate to it). Tradition does not contradict Scripture.
1,023
posted on
02/26/2010 3:39:09 AM PST
by
Cronos
(Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
To: roamer_1
Non-Trinitarians is a very large field. Those who do not deny Scripture I will probably find to be acceptable.
Well, "acceptable" is relative -- the non-T's that I know are nice people and I would even say they follow Christ, but they don't believe that Christ was God. "acceptable" as in being believers or being Christian -- please could you clarify?
1,024
posted on
02/26/2010 3:43:26 AM PST
by
Cronos
(Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
To: wmfights; 1000 silverlings
How about kneeling down and kissing the ring of the pope? Or falling prostate before him?
To: Religion Moderator
Exactly why I posted what I did. Others have been telling me what I believe and what I think since this thread started.
1,026
posted on
02/26/2010 4:39:17 AM PST
by
Lil Flower
("Without Love, deeds, even the most brilliant, count as nothing." St. Therese of Lisieux)
To: Salvation; Dr. Eckleburg
Keep posting the negativity, Dr. E. You have no idea, how you turn people away FROM YOUR VIEWS and turn them toward the Catholic Church with your posts.I don't believe that for a minute...
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
That's preach the word of God, not a catechism or a tradition...
Dr. E is right on the mark...
1,027
posted on
02/26/2010 5:07:52 AM PST
by
Iscool
(I don't understand all that I know...)
To: Cronos
Scripture and Holy Tradition do not contradict each other (since the latter birthed the former). Wanna bet???
1,028
posted on
02/26/2010 5:11:54 AM PST
by
Iscool
(I don't understand all that I know...)
To: Cronos
Scripture and Holy Tradition do not contradict each other (since the latter birthed the former).When he went to the mountain, what Tradition exactly did Moses follow?
1,029
posted on
02/26/2010 5:22:14 AM PST
by
Cvengr
(Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
To: Cronos
And yet, they CANNOT be separate because we believe that God is ONE. We also believe that Jesus was God. And we believe that they were separate "somethings":)That proves again that your religion still doesn't have a clue about the Trinity...Your vicar of Christ doesn't even understand the Trinity...And you guys claim you discovered It...
Jesus is still separate from God...As is the Holy Spirit...
The Holy Spirit is here, on earth, in the bodies of men/women...Jesus and God are in Heaven...
If you study the scriptures, you know it's in there...Problem is again, you just don't believe God...
1,030
posted on
02/26/2010 5:31:07 AM PST
by
Iscool
(I don't understand all that I know...)
To: Judith Anne
Those twisted statements do not accurately reflect Catholic beliefs.Those twisted statements come from your brother/sister Catholics...They just get repeated here by some Protestants...
Why don't you take it up with your religion???
1,031
posted on
02/26/2010 5:33:48 AM PST
by
Iscool
(I don't understand all that I know...)
To: RnMomof7
Or falling prostate before him? Hopefully with an attending urologist nearby.
1,032
posted on
02/26/2010 5:38:00 AM PST
by
Petronski
(In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
To: Gamecock
I too am catholic, but not Roman Catholic.Me too.
1,033
posted on
02/26/2010 5:39:16 AM PST
by
Petronski
(In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
To: Iscool
Scripture and Holy Tradition do not contradict each other as Holy Tradition birthed Scripture
1,034
posted on
02/26/2010 5:39:27 AM PST
by
Cronos
(Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
To: Quix
6. Marble Mary toe kissing--as I've noted, I've been to the Vatican and seen it first hand. It was an accurate and vivid illustration of a point I was making. Marble Mary toe kissers...
It would be terrible except that it's true...lolololololol...
1,035
posted on
02/26/2010 5:40:37 AM PST
by
Iscool
(I don't understand all that I know...)
To: Cvengr
I don’t get how your question is linked to my statement that Scripture and Holy Tradition do not contradict each other.
1,036
posted on
02/26/2010 5:41:42 AM PST
by
Cronos
(Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
To: Iscool
Iscool: Jesus is still separate from God...As is the Holy Spirit...
ok...
Jesus and God are in Heaven...
ok...is Arius home?
1,037
posted on
02/26/2010 5:44:49 AM PST
by
Cronos
(Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
To: Cronos
Good luck with that one. *lolz*
1,038
posted on
02/26/2010 5:45:27 AM PST
by
Petronski
(In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
To: Judith Anne
"Christian" means follower of Christ.No it doesn't...Many people followed Jesus to get free food...Some to get healed...
All Christians follow Jesus...But all followers are not Christians...
Why is it you guys can't ever get yourself to say Jesus Christ??? I'm thinkin' you guys need a little closer relationship with your Saviour...
1,039
posted on
02/26/2010 5:46:24 AM PST
by
Iscool
(I don't understand all that I know...)
To: Judith Anne
Catholics are Christian.Some Catholics are Christians...One does not become a Christian by becoming Catholic...
1,040
posted on
02/26/2010 5:49:04 AM PST
by
Iscool
(I don't understand all that I know...)
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