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To: CondoleezzaProtege

The major problem with calvinism is that when you take its premise that God is responsible for everything, then God is ultimately the source of all evil.

In fact, terms like “sin”, “disobedience”, or “obedience” become meaningless since all human activity or actions is merely God’s robotic creation “acting” according to His divine blueprint.

Courage, cowardice, even love are meaningless since human being are simply acting out the “plan” designed for them.


4 posted on 02/28/2010 8:54:37 AM PST by Nevadan
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To: Nevadan

The major problem with calvinism is that when you take its premise that God is responsible for everything, then God is ultimately the source of all evil.

Agreed. No one can tell me that illness and death aren't Satan's tools.

6 posted on 02/28/2010 9:05:20 AM PST by norge (The amiable dunce is back, wearing a skirt and high heels.)
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To: Nevadan

You show your ignorance. Click my screen name and scroll half-way down the page.


15 posted on 02/28/2010 10:01:46 AM PST by Matchett-PI (Sowell's book, Intellectuals and Society, eviscerates the fantasies that uphold leftist thought)
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To: Nevadan
"Courage, cowardice, even love are meaningless since human being are simply acting out the “plan” designed for them."

That was just a hollow ploy by Calvin to establish his sinless bona fides in the face of so much damning evidence. By making all sin the fault of God he could claim to be equal to or superior to Jesus and His Church.

23 posted on 02/28/2010 10:33:48 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Nevadan; Dr. Eckleburg; Frumanchu
The major problem with calvinism is that when you take its premise that God is responsible for everything, then God is ultimately the source of all evil.

Calvinists would disagree with you understanding of what they believe.

Incidentally, if Calvinism posited a robotic/mechanistic creation as you seem to think, then there could be no good or evil. There would just be the behavior of the machine.

27 posted on 02/28/2010 11:13:22 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Nevadan; CondoleezzaProtege; xzins; Frumanchu; RnMomof7; the_conscience; drstevej; ...
First, thanks to CondoleezzaProtege for posting Time's take (from a year ago) on Calvinism. Since so many Christians haven't given the doctrines of grace much thought, (most) publicity is good. 8~)

The article is correct when it quotes Al Mohler that "The moment someone begins to define God's [being or actions] biblically, that person is drawn to conclusions that are traditionally classified as Calvinist."

And as the author of this article says, it will be interesting to see if "during these hard times, more Christians searching for security will submit their wills to the austerely demanding God of their country's infancy."

Calvinists are confident that exactly as many as God has determined to submit their wills and lives to God will do so by the free gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

God is all holy; He is not the author of sin. But it is equally true that all things, including Satan, are under the hand, will and purpose of the Triune God. How could that not be true and God still be God? Satan is, after all, a created being.

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Colossians 1:16-17

"All things."

Therefore the Christian who has been given God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ should boast only in the Lord, and not in anything in himself. Because salvation is of the Lord. Alone. And that is the true focal point of our confidence in His love -- that He loved us before we loved Him, "before we could do anything good or evil." (Romans 9:11.)

All that being true, then we are able to trust God when our lives are happy and likewise to trust Him when sadness prevails. Because it is ALL by God, for God, through God, one way or another, to bring His children to Him.

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." -- Romans 8:28

"All things."

32 posted on 02/28/2010 12:42:41 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Nevadan; RnMomof7; CondoleezzaProtege
Courage, cowardice, even love are meaningless since human being are simply acting out the “plan” designed for them.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." -- Ephesians 1:4-6

I realize this is radical information to us who have been steeped in the fever dreams of our own ability, but it is the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ. His righteousness alone, mercifully imputed to us, saves us and not our own righteousness.

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." -- Philippians 2:13

Men are saved by mercy and not debt. We have not chosen Him; He has chosen us.

Read Romans 8-9. Read John wherein Christ tells us who believes and who is saved and why...

"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." -- John 10:26


" I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine...

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" -- John 17:9;20


36 posted on 02/28/2010 1:07:36 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Nevadan
The major problem with calvinism is that when you take its premise that God is responsible for everything, then God is ultimately the source of all evil.

Yeah, so. God is sovereign; He does what He pleases. Why be so arrogant as to say that God can have this attribute but not that one. Who created who?

Do you also have a problem with Romans Chapter 8?

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

37 posted on 02/28/2010 1:18:56 PM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: Nevadan

Ephesians 1 makes it clear we are chosen to do good works.

My wife, who used to be a hard-core Baptist Arminian, has now “converted” to Calvinism so to speak solely based upon Jesus’ prayer at the Garden. He prays for the elect, not the entire world.

I used to agree with you here and was repulsed by Calvinism. But, in reality....once you truly “get” it.....it brings you to your knees because you realize how unworthy you are and how gracious God is.

We aren’t mere robots....we still do EXACTLY what we want. To say otherwise is a misunderstanding of Calvinism. Yes, God may have tugged at our heart via the Holy Spirit to come to him, but we weren’t dragged against our will....he wanted to do so.

At the same time, those who sin do so because they WANT to do it. By no means does this make God the author of evil just because he passes some over.


122 posted on 03/01/2010 7:53:44 AM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: Nevadan
I read Calvin's Institutes long ago, but did not come away with the concept that humans are not responsible for their actions.

The "Predetermination or Human Choice" conundrum is part of every religion .......and, yes, even atheism.......

The question of whether or not the atheist gets that job he wants is the culmination of the many trillions of bio-chemical and physical events which preceded the date of the "employment decision." How can there be actual "choice" if the only thing that exists is the material universe?

To load "predestination/free wil" as somehow a christian issue is to misunderstand the basic philosophical conundrum.

167 posted on 03/02/2010 7:13:36 AM PST by cookcounty (Let us not speak of the honor of men. Rather, let us bind them with the Constitution. --Jefferson)
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