Posted on 04/24/2010 5:08:36 PM PDT by stfassisi
Mary has nothing to do with salvation. Without Mary there is no Christ! What Madness is this?
You posted: Without Mary there is no Christ!
And without the pre-incarnate Christ there is no Mary, or anyone else, or anything else. So, Mary was used as a vessel to bring forth Jesus our Savior, and her other children, His brethren.
Isn’t it wonderful that God uses fallible human vessels to do His work? And that He sent His Son to be the second Adam, the ONLY perfect man, who could be our sole mediator?
You posted: Without Mary there is no Christ!
And without the pre-incarnate Christ there is no Mary, or anyone else, or anything else. So, Mary was used as a vessel to bring forth Jesus our Savior, and her other children, His brethren.
Isn’t it wonderful that God uses fallible human vessels to do His work? And that He sent His Son to be the second Adam, the ONLY perfect man, who could be our sole mediator?
I would read stars & stripes forever as meaning Mary has no special (or more) significance in salvation than the multiple other vessels that God has used over the centuries, like Adam and Eve, Mary’s mother and Father, and other known and unknown (to us) vessels of God’s grace, mercy and favor. Of course, every person is special (created in the image of God) and equal in the eyes of the Creator.
What if Mary had said no to God’s will (as Judas eventually did)? Do you think there would be no virgin birth or no salvation for mankind? Do you think she was forced to say “yes” to God? I highly respect her as a sister in Christ and a great example of a godly woman who is a great example to follow in humility and obedience, nothing more. Since the scriptures give her nowhere near the “pedestal” the Catholic Church does, I will have to go with the word of God rather than the traditions of men.
MARY, WHY HONOR HER?
(version 3)
Bob Stanley
Why would anyone want to honor Mary? After all, Jesus is paramount and we should go directly to Him. We do not need her.....or do we? Let us examine this question with Scripture and with our own GOD given powers of reason.
1. Who is the first person in Scripture to call Mary ‘Blessed’?
The first place in the Bible where you will find the answer is Luke 1:28. If your answer is Gabriel, then it is the wrong answer. Gabriel is an Archangel, and the Greek word ‘angel’, means ‘messenger’. So Gabriel was only a messenger for someone, but who? Gabriel was sent by GOD, so it was GOD’s message that Gabriel delivered. If GOD was the first person to call Mary ‘Blessed’, can any of GOD’s creatures do less? Dare you, or I, or anyone else refute a clear statement from GOD Himself? Anyone who attempts to do so is putting himself above GOD.
Others in Scripture called her “Blessed” also. Elizabeth did in Luke 1:42, and a “woman from the crowd” did in Luke 11:27. Mary herself said in Luke 1:48, “...for behold, henceforth all generations ‘shall’ call me Blessed.” Can you dispute the fact that the word ‘shall’ is a command, and not a suggestion?
If you look up the word ‘Blessed’ in the dictionary, it means, ‘Holy’, held in ‘Veneration’, ‘Revered’. GOD is telling us that Mary is Holy, and she should be venerated and revered. Why does any human try to refute the word of GOD?
2. Okay, so she is ‘Blessed’, but that does not mean we need her!
Well, what did GOD say through Gabriel in Luke 1:30-33? “You have found favor with GOD.” Right there, GOD ‘venerated’ Mary over all other women. In verse 31 He tells her that she will conceive. Who will she conceive? None other than Jesus Christ, the second person of the Holy Trinity, who will manifest Himself as the ‘Incarnate Word’. GOD Himself needed Mary to conceive and carry for nine months, His very own Son. GOD needed Mary to be the vessel to give birth to His Divine Son. If GOD needed her, can we not need her also?
3. So she gave birth to a male child! She is a mother like any other mother! Why does that make her special?
This brings us to a basic theological question. Who is Jesus Christ? We know that He is the second person of the Holy Trinity, the only Son of GOD. We know He is also the ‘Incarnate Word’ as explained in John 1:14, “...the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” John 1:1 teaches us that the “WORD WAS GOD.” Mary gave birth to the ‘Incarnate Word’ and the ‘Word’ was GOD. I ask, to whom did Mary give birth? The only possible answer is that she gave birth to GOD. Some insist that she only gave birth to the ‘humanity’ of GOD, but what does that mean? Jesus Christ was the only person ever born with two natures, one human and one divine. He was but one person however, not two. He could not be a human person and a divine person, as that would make Him two persons. The question then becomes, ‘was Jesus Christ a human person, or was He a divine person’? Back to John 1:1 and 14, the ‘Incarnate Word’ was GOD. Jesus Christ is a divine person. Mothers give birth to persons, each with a nature. They do not give birth to natures. GOD Himself, calls Jesus Christ His divine Son (Heb 1:5-8).
Yes she is a mother like any other mother, but what a difference between the sons.
4. Well, I am still not convinced you say?
We have established that Jesus Christ is GOD, that He was born of Mary, and that GOD needed her for this ‘Incarnation’. Let us look at what Scripture says. Jesus Christ did not come to destroy the ‘Law’, but to fulfill it. In Matthew 5:17-20, Jesus stated this and He also said in verse 18-19, “...not one jot or tittle shall be lost from the law till all things have been accomplished. Therefore whoever does away with one of these least commandments, and so teaches men, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven...” He very plainly said to ‘keep the commandments’. Now don’t you suppose Jesus Christ Himself, kept the commandments that He Himself wrote? Of course He did, all of them. Now what about ‘honor thy father and thy mother’. Don’t you think He kept that one too? There is certainly ample evidence to show that He honored His Father, and there is evidence that He honored His mother as well. In fact, He, GOD Himself, must have obeyed His mother’s, everyday living, ‘mother to child’ commands as He was growing up. This is shown in Luke 2:51, “And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was SUBJECT to them.”
Jesus also obeyed her by performing His first miracle at her request at Cana when He turned the water into wine in John 2:1-5. Jesus Christ therefore kept the commandment ‘honor thy mother’.
If Jesus Christ honored His mother, can we do less?
Jesus Christ loves His mother like any good son would. He will defend her from all attacks against her. If you have not honored Mary, what will you tell her Son when you eventually meet Him face to face, after you have taken your last breath, and He asks you why? Remember, at that point in time, the ‘GOD of Mercy’ becomes the ‘GOD of Justice’.
5. In Summary:
a. GOD called Mary Blessed, and He venerated her.
b. GOD needed her to bear His Divine Son.
c. GOD chose Mary above all women.
d. Mary gave birth to the divine ‘Incarnate Word’.
e. Jesus Christ honors His very own mother.
f. Jesus Christ will defend His mother as any good son would.
Doesn’t that make Mary special?
Does not this make her worthy of our honor?
Can we do less than what GOD Himself did?
Does any man or woman have the right, or the authority, to say we should not honor Mary?
I have given you the Scriptural authority to honor her. Ask the person who tells you otherwise to show in Scripture where it says not to honor her.
Jesus Christ was the only person in history who was able to choose His own mother. Why did He choose Mary? Because she is special, that’s why...
Anti-Catholics often misunderstand or narrowly interpret passages so as to ridicule Catholic teachings. They are quite fond of doing this in regard to the Virgin Mary. A favorite such passage is Matthew 12:46-50.
While he was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and his brethren were standing outside, seeking to speak to him. And someone said to him, “Behold, thy mother and thy brethren are standing outside, seeking thee.” But he answered and said to him who told him, “Who is my mother and who are my brethren?” And stretching forth his hand towards his disciples, he said, “Behold my mother and my brethren! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven, he is my brother and sister and mother.”
The anti-Catholic proponent will make many claims which run against the traditional understanding of this incident and which find little if any support from the text itself. He will suggest that these “brethren” are children of Mary, even though she is never called their mother and extended families of that time would usually include many cousins given the honor of being called a brother. Indeed, the linguistic limitations of these people would require such a designation. The critic will also contend that Mary and the family are aggravating Jesus by their attempted interruption. Instead, it seems that Jesus uses their appearance as a special opportunity to speak about a spiritual kinship which is superior to that of blood. Further, the religious bigot will suggest that Jesus is discounting the intercessory role and honor due to Mary. They will say that Jesus stretches forth his hand toward his disciples and not toward Mary, as if this supports their claim. What they fail to appreciate is the very real possibility that Mary and the brethren are counted among his many followers and/or disciples. Note that the crowd recognizes Mary and the brethren. They are familiar faces. Why have they come? They accompany Mary, who like any good mother is concerned about her Son. From Bethlehem to Calvary, she will not abandon him. Things are heating up. Not everyone is happy with Jesus. He has chastized his listeners as “an evil and adulterous generation” and the Pharisees for “blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.” They will almost certainly seek to retaliate. She does not come to silence him, but to be in solidarity with him.
Those who hate the mother of Jesus will deny that Jesus is praising her. They refuse to understand that Mary was the first disciple of her Son. As the handmaid of the Lord, she affirmed the message of an angel and received the Savior into her womb. She is the precursor of all the disciples in hearing and doing God’s will. Oddly enough, there is another passage which proves this point and yet it is also used by certain fundamentalists to belittle Mary, Luke 11:27-28:
Now it came to pass as he was saying these things, that a certain woman from the crowd lifted up her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the breasts that nursed thee.” But he said, “Rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it.”
Jesus does not mean to be demeaning of his Mary’s maternity. Indeed, he is again elevating her status as the one in whom the Word has come to true fruition. It is in this regard that she is a model to others. If we receive the Good News, then we too can give birth to Jesus in each and every generation. Others will see him and know that his is really alive and meaningful through our discipleship. Also, note that as the fruit of Mary’s womb, the ultimate honor that the woman is giving is directed toward Jesus. The humility of Christ will not allow himself any idle and empty admiration. During his mortal life, he will be lifted up, not by flattery, but by our sins— and then upon a cross. He redirects their focus to his true meaning and reality, the living Word of God. He calls the crowd to receptivity and obedience.
Such questions as the relevance and role of Mary are often deliberately distorted in anti-Catholic Bible study. Stock answers are prepared to beguile gullible Catholics and ignorant Protestants. Despite the widespread re-emphasis upon the Scriptures under the Catholic auspices today, they will assert that such endeavors are not not serious or encouraged. This is one of their many deceits. Lacking any definite teaching authority, they reduce the meaning of bible passages to that of personal interpretation, contend that it should be obvious to all, and then bitterly fight with their fellow fundamentalists who, with the same sincerity, disagree with them on certain texts and doctrines— so much for crystal clarity.
Lately, because of rumors that the Holy Father might declare Mary the co-redemptrix, anti-Catholic opponents have been particularly virulent. (By the way, it was revealed that the rumors had no foundation.) However, the truth of such a teaching, even without a formal definition, is improperly defined. She is defined by the foes of truth as an additional author of salvation. This is not the Catholic position. Rather, Mary’s role is subservient to that of her Son. Because of her unique position as the one first touched by the redemptive power of Christ’s cross, her sinless maternity resonates with the saving work of her Son. She offered herself to God as the vessel of our salvation. She surrenders her Son at Calvary. His pain is her pain. She was intimately united to her Son in faith, hope, and love. One could even contend that she died a kind of vicarious martyrdom at the crucifixion. The knife long prophesied, pierced her heart. Her participation in the saving work of her Son was quite unique. Further, she continues to perform a role as our spiritual mother, given to us through our emissary John at the cross. The mother of the redeemer became the mother of the redeemed. While on a different level, we are also called to participate in extending the message and work of Christ.
Do Catholics Worship Mary? If you know of a Catholic who “worships” Mary then he or she is NOT a Catholic. Worship is for God alone. Catholics venerate Mary. Jesus said: “Honor thy mother and father: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death, (Mt. 15:5).” Just as Jesus honors His mother, so do we, for on the cross Jesus gave His mother to all mankind when he said to St. John: …Behold thy mother! (Jn. 19:27)
Catholics treat Mary as if she were a goddess - Mary is NOT a Goddess. She has no power or authority of her own. Mary cannot save your soul, you can only be saved through Jesus Christ. Mary’s only mission is to lead us to Christ. At the wedding of Cana, when the wine ran out, Jesus listened to his Mother’s plea on behalf of the bride and groom and turned water into wine. (Jn. 2:3-7).
No one knows or loves her son more than Mary. We ask Mary to pray for us (mediate) or anyone else in need in the same manner we ask a friend to pray (mediate) for us. We believe that Mary continues to intercede for us to her son. It is for this reason we ask Mary, in faith, for her prayers. Our prayers to Mary are an addition to our prayers to God—not a replacement.
Yes, there is one mediator between God and man—Jesus Christ, but does not praying for each other honor Christ? Who would know a son better than a mother? Why should we not ask Mary to pray for us? For those who think that no one is in heaven and and that our prayers to Mary are meaningless; then why did Jesus say on the cross to the poor thief, “This day you will be with me in Paradise!” (Lk. 23:43) Do you think Jesus would take a thief to Paradise and leave His beloved mother behind?
How can Mary be the mother of Catholics? Mary is not only the mother of Catholics but of all God’s children. In Revelation 12:1-17 it clearly shows Mary as the mother of all.
Verses 1-2 speak of a woman who was with child. This woman was not an ordinary woman as the verse indicates: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Some say that this verse is symbolic of the church. But who is the child (Clue: Jesus)? What woman can you think of, in the Bible was with child and was traveling? (Clue: Mary).
In verse 3-4 there is reference to a dragon that was waiting to devour the child. Who is the dragon? (Clue: Satan). Then verse 5 goes on to say that she brought forth a man child who was to rule all the nations with a rod of iron. Hmmmm wonder who that could be? (Clue: Jesus). A little further on in verse 7 we see Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. In verse 9 the “old serpent” is identified as Satan. In verse 17, we see that the dragon (Satan) was angry with the woman (Mary) and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (mankind), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Conclusion: Mary is your mother!
Mary was only a Vessel nothing more! - In the old Testament, the Ark of the Covenant was holy because of what it contained inside. It represented the presence of God to the Israelites. God made it clear to Moses in Exodus 25 that every detail must be followed precisely in the construction of the ark. What does this have to do with Mary? The ark of the Old Testament was a dwelling place for God on earth, and Mary is the ark of the new covenant for she carried God’s only son. Would the same God who carefully instructed the creation of the old ark disregard the new ark (vessel) that carried His son? If the old ark was so important to God, would not the ark that carried His Son be even more important? Mary is not to be disregarded and thrown aside. How could any woman raise a child so perfectly as Mary raised Jesus, without not being filled with graces upon graces from above?
What about Mary’s Children? - The fact is, Mary had no other children, only Jesus. Then why does the Bible mention Jesus’ “brothers and sisters?” In Hebrew and Aramaic there is not a word for the term “cousin,” so the word “brethren” was used. Through out the Bible the term “brethren” is freely used. For example, in 2 Kings 10:13-14, there is a reference to the forty-two “brethren” of king Ochozias. In Mark 6:1-3, the “brothers” of Jesus are listed as “James, Joses, Simon and Judas are mentioned. It’s funny but Mary is NEVER called the mother of anyone except as being the mother of Jesus. The “brethren’s” of the Lord could not have been the sons of Mary. Look at Mark 15;40, the women standing at the foot of the cross was Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; John 19:25 states: ·Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas (this means that she was Jesus’ aunt and her sons’ Jesus’ cousins.), and Mary Magdalene. Mark 15:47 states and Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses (this would be Jesus’ aunt - Joses his cousin) be held where he was laid. Mark 15:47 states: And when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome (As you see, there is no mention of Mary the mother of Jesus), had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him (again we see his aunt - and James and Salome his cousins).
The gospel account of 12-year-old Jesus lost in the temple does not mention siblings. If Christ did have brothers, why did he entrust his mother to the care of his beloved disciple? Why does Mt. 1:25 state that “he knew her not til she brought forth her 1st son? This does not imply they before Jesus’ birth or after his birth, sexual relations took place between Mary and Joseph. All this implies is that an action did not take place up to a certain point. For example, · 2 Sam 6:23 states, “Michale the daughter of Saul had no children until the day of her death.” Does this mean she had children after her death? Of course not!! All that this states is during her life she had no children. You must remember that the way of speech and interpretations in Jesus’ day is far different then the way we imply today.
The early Christian writings of the DIDACHE (358 A.D.) state the following:
767a [2, 70] The union, therefore, was of just such a kind, so that He might unite what is man by nature, to Him who is the nature of the Godhead, thereby assuring the accomplishment of salvation and His deification. Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature form the Father and proper to His essence, deny also that He took true human flesh from the Ever-Virgin Mary. In neither case would it have been profitable to us men: if the Word were not by nature true Son of God, or if the flesh which He assumed were not true flesh
funny...have a good day...God bless you and yours
“put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for
the place whereon thou standest is holy ground”
(Exodus 3:5)
Mt Sinai was holy ground because God dwelt there.
Was not Mary “holy ground” in preparation for carrying the Christ child? If a patch of ground on a mountain was considered holy because God was there, would Mary not be preserved from sin in preparation to have God-become-man in her womb? Would God allow his Son to be carried in an unclean vessel? No. From Mary’s conception, she was sinless, in preparation for the role that God had prepared for her. It was not of her doing. It was God’s. She is a creature of God, just like all of us, but she was especially selected by God to be the mother of His Son. He elevated her. What’s more, Jesus himself loved his mother dearly, and Joseph was especially selected to protect such a special woman, and the Child she was carrying.
Do you think God has limits? Do you not believe that he could preserve her from sin from her conception? Why would he let his Son be carried in an unclean vessel? Do you think that God would just toss her aside like a used grocery bag after she bore Christ within her? Jesus himself loved her so much that he made sure she would be taken care of - even as he hung on the cross. Why would such a significant moment even be entered in the scriptures if she had no significance?
Do I love her? You bet I do! Do I worship her? No! But she played a part in bringing Christ-our-Salvation to us with her simple and humble ‘Yes’ - and for that I love her. She is the ultimate model of what a Christian should be. She is a model, and a signpost pointing us to Christ.
Sheesh. Why is it so hard for some folks to understand?
“”Kind of leaves the Holy Spirit out in the cold, don’t you think?””
NO! Wherever Jesus is the Holy Spirit IS,so what you wrote makes no sense.
The Rosary glorifies the the Holy Spirit as well
From the Glorious mysteries of the Rosary said on Wednesdays ,Saturdays and Sundays.....
THE GLORIOUS MYSTERIES
http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/rosary/descent.htm
3. The Descent of the Holy Spirit
The Descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles Jesus sends the Holy Spirit in the form of fiery tongues on His Apostles and disciples. (Acts 2:2-4)
The Holy Spirit appeared under the form of tongues of fire in order to fill the Apostles with truth and to prepare them to bear witness to Jesus. He also come to fill their hearts with love.
He is the Person of Love in the life of God. He is also like a breath, an aspiration of infinite Love, from which we draw the breath of life.
On the day of Pentecost the Divine Spirit communicated such an abundance of life to the whole Church that to symbolize it “there came a sound from heaven, as of a violent wind coming, and it filled the whole house where they (the Apostles) were sitting.”
But it is also for us that the Holy Spirit has come, for the group in the Cenacle represented the whole Church. The Holy Spirit came to remain with the Church forever. This is the promise of Jesus Himself. He dwells in the Church permanently and unfailingly, performing in it without ceasing, His action of life-giving and sanctification. He establishes the Church infallibly in the truth. It is He Who makes the Church blossom forth with a marvelous supernatural fruitfulness, for He brings to life and full fruition in Virgins, Martyrs, Confessors, those heroic virtues which are one of the marks of true sanctity.
Perhaps you should look into praying the Rosary yourself like other protestants do
“”Mary is the Catholic Church is WAY beyond the emphasis scripture gives to her role, and detracts from the focus of the Bible “”
You only think this because you don’t understand the Bible through typology of Scriptures. It’s one of the biggest mistakes protestants make. The early Church UNDERSTOOD typology.The Blessed Mother is written all over the OT and fulfilled inn the NT
Here is some examples from an older post of mine....
Old Testament Ark “verses” New Testament- Mary who is the “Immaculate”(Sinless) Ark of the NEW COVENANT
A cloud of glory covered the Tabernacle and Ark (Exodus 40:34-35; Numbers 9:15) = Type is “And the angel said to her: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you’” (Luke 1:35)
Ark spent three months in the house of Obededom the Gittite (2 Samuel 6:11) = Type is Mary spent three months in the house of Zechariah and Elizabeth (Luke 1:26, 40)
King David asked “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” (2 Samuel 6:9) = Type is Elizabeth asked Mary, “Why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (Luke 1:43)
David Leaped and danced before the Lord when the Ark arrived in Jerusalem (2 Samuel 6:14 - 16) = Type is John the Baptist leaped for joy in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary arrived (Luke 1:44)
Even the Early Christians saw this. Some examples....
Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–373) was the main defender of the deity of Christ against the second-century heretics. He wrote: “O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O [Ark of the] Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides” (Homily of the Papyrus of Turin).
Gregory the Wonder Worker (c. 213–c. 270) wrote: “Let us chant the melody that has been taught us by the inspired harp of David, and say, ‘Arise, O Lord, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy sanctuary.’ For the Holy Virgin is in truth an ark, wrought with gold both within and without, that has received the whole treasury of the sanctuary” (Homily on the Annunciation to the Holy Virgin Mary).
Mary is the Daughter of Zion .
The important thing point out is that in the OT (esp. Isiah, Zephaniah, Zechariah, etc..) there are Messianic prophecies known as the Daughter Zion prophecies which tend to have a similar form. They begin with something like, “rejoice, O Daughter of Zion, for the Lord your God is in your midst..” and continue on with Messianic prophecy. The form of Gabriel’s Annuniciation to Mary matches the form of the Daughter Zion prophecies. This indicates on the one hand that these prophesies are fulfilled with the words of Gabriel which announce the Messianic expectation as being fulfilled at that time.
The prophets words were a foreshadowing of the Annuniciation. Gabriel called Mary Kecharitomene, which I believe captures the essence of Daughter of Zion and points beyond it. Basically Mary is being presented in Luke I & II as representing not just the perfect embodiment of the virtues of what it means to be Israel, she is presented as a certain personification of Israel. She stands in as Israel proper, and the language used throughout the narrative suggests the concept of “corporate personality” which is part of Hebrew thought. There are allusions and types in Luke I & II which further support this (themes and structure in the Magnificat, allusions to Abraham to which this concept of corporate personality applies, Simeon, Judith, etc..). Also, this understanding of what Luke I & II presents about Our Lady is an interpretive key to understanding certain passages in a deeper way (for example Simeon’s prophecy).
It also ties in with themes in John’s writings and sheds light upon them. The thematic parallels between John-Rev & Luke-Acts are many so it’s no surprise that this aspect of Luke I & II would mesh well with John.
The Importance of Kecharitomene
Kecharitomene (Luke 1:28), is Mary,s purpose ,it is Her essence and being in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the “woman” of the Father. As the spouse of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:20), in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the “woman” of the Holy Spirit. As the mother of the Son (Luke 1:31), in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the ‘woman’ of the Son. The virgin from Nazareth, clearly then, is “woman” to all the three divine Persons who is GOD. She is aptly the ‘blessed among women’ (Luke 1:42). The Blessed Virgin Mary is the “woman” of GOD. The Son of Man never called her “mother”, not even once while He interacted with humans, because it will not be in keeping with His divinity or with the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity. The virgin from Nazareth is not the mother of the Holy Spirit and she, obviously, is not the mother of the Father
Luke 1:28 Uses the word “Kecharitomene: to describe Mary,s function,essence and being
The original Greek was kecharitomene, the perfect passive participle of charis, grace. St. Jerome translated it into Latin as gratia plena, “full of grace.” In Greek the perfect stem denotes a completed action with a permanent result. Kecharitomene means completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace. The Protestant Revised Standard Version translates Lk 1:28 as “highly favored daughter.” This is no mere difference of opinion but a conscious effort to distort St. Luke’s original Greek text. Had Mary been no more than “highly favored,” she would have been indistinguishable from Sarah the wife of Abraham, Anna the mother of Samuel, or Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptist, all of whom were long childless and “highly favored” because God acceded to their pleas to bear children. But neither Sarah nor Anna is described as kecharitomene in the Septuagint, a translation by Jewish scholars of the Hebrew Scriptures for Greek-speaking Jews in Egypt. Nor does Luke use it to describe Elizabeth. Kecharitomene in this usage is reserved for Mary of Nazareth.
The word “kecharitomene” is a perfect passive participle of the verb “charitoo.”
Some have argued that this says nothing unique about Mary since Saint Stephen, just before he is martyred for the faith, is said to be full of grace in Acts 6:8. However a different word form is used to describe Saint Stephen. In the Greek the conjugated form of “charitoo” that is used to describe him is “charitos” not “kecharitomene” that is used in reference to Mary.
Saint Luke does not use Mary as her name in Luke 1:28 He Changes it to “Kecharitomene” this is a new name , and we all know that name changes in Scripture are significant - Abram (Hebrew “father”) to Abraham (”father of multitudes), Jacob to Israel, Saul to Paul, Simon to Peter, etc.
This describes her very essence and being.
Mary, is named “kecharitomene” - because she is full of grace-full of perfection
Mary was chosen to be the Mother of God, because she was perfect in obeying the will of God. She would not betray her divine husband for the sake of a man. The marriage between Joseph and Mary took place in the divine plan in order to protect the publicity of the holy virgin announced in the Holy Scriptures who would give birth to Emanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14)
Joseph was a chaste man, who respected Mary highly since he was given revelations about Mary and Jesus by the angel of God (Matthew 1:20), he accepted the special holy mission to help the promised Messiah and his mother.
Mary is the New Eve(More Typology)
Old Testament Eve- Verses New Testament Mary
Created without original sin, Gen 2:22-25 = Created without original sin, Luke 1:28,42
There was a virgin, Gen 2:22-25 = There is a virgin, Luke 1:27-34
There was a tree, Gen 2:16-17 = There was a cross made from a tree, Matt 27:31-35
There was a fallen angel, Gen 3:1-13 = There was a loyal angel, Luke 1:26-38
A satanic serpent tempted her, Gen 3:4-6 = A satanic dragon threatened her, Rev 12:4-6,13-17
There was pride, Gen 3:4-7 = There was humility, Luke 1:38
There was disobedience, Gen 3:4-7 = There was obedience, Luke 1:38
There was a fall, Gen 3:16-20 = There was redemption, John 19:34
Death came through Eve, Gen 3:17-19 = Life Himself came through Mary, John 10:28
She was mentioned in Genesis 3:2-22 = She was mentioned in Genesis 3:15
Could not approach the tree of life Gen 3:24 = Approached the “Tree of Life”, John 19:25
An angel kept her out of Eden, Gen 3:24 = An angel protected her, Rev 12:7-9
Prophecy of the coming of Christ, Gen 3:15 = The Incarnation of Christ, Luke 2:7
Firstborn was a man child, Gen 4:1 = Firstborn was a man child, Luke 2:7, Rev 12:5
Firstborn became a sinner, Gen 4:1-8 = Firstborn was the Savior, Luke 2:34
The mother of all the living, Gen 3:20 = The spiritual mother of all the living, John 19:27
The Early Christians saw this very clear...
“He became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience which proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her: wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me according to thy word.’ And by her has He been born, to whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him; but works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 100 (A.D. 155)
“In accordance with this design, Mary the Virgin is found obedient, saying, ‘Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.’ But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when as yet she was a virgin. And even as she, having indeed a husband, Adam, but being nevertheless as yet a virgin (for in Paradise ‘they were both naked, and were not ashamed,’ inasmuch as they, having been created a short time previously, had no understanding of the procreation of children: for it was necessary that they should first come to adult age, and then multiply from that time onward), having become disobedient, was made the cause of death, both to herself and to the entire human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed [to her], and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, become the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race. And on this account does the law term a woman betrothed to a man, the wife of him who had betrothed her, although she was as yet a virgin; thus indicating the back-reference from Mary to Eve, because what is joined together could not otherwise be put asunder than by inversion of the process by which these bonds of union had arisen; s so that the former ties be cancelled by the latter, that the latter may set the former again at liberty Wherefore also Luke, commencing the genealogy with the Lord, carried it back to Adam, indicating that it was He who regenerated them into the Gospel of life, and not they Him. And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:22 (A.D. 180).
“For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1 (A.D. 180).
Mary was PRESERVED from all stain of original sin at her creation so that she would be a “New Creation”, the “New Eve”
Lastly,It is NOT fitting that the Mother of God should bring shame to Her divine son.Therefor.God preserved Mary from any personal sin,whether mortal or venial. Through the Grace of God,which was infused into her soul at the moment of her conception,at the very instant He created her soul and united it to her body. He did it in virtue of the merits of Christ.
No descendant of Adam receives the Grace of God except through the merits of Christ.
The Mother of Christ was no exception to this law of Grace.
Like every other human being who is descended of carnal generation from Adam,the blessed virgin Mary need to be redeemed by the blood of Christ,But wheras every other human being needs to be cleansed from the stain of original sin-which has contracted by way of carnal generation from Adam-the Virgin Mary did NOT need to be cleansed from original sin.Through the Grace of Christ she was preserved from the stain of sin.
Mary is closer to Christ than any other human being,because He took flesh from her and dwelt in her womb.The closer one is to Christ,the source of all Grace,the greater degree of Grace one receives from Christ. Mary,therefor,received from Christ a fullness of Grace not granted to any other creature.
Her Immaculate Conception made her worthy to be Mother of God
sorry my last post was meant for Theo not you.
Thanks for your posts. The word “shall” never thought of it that way.
Long post to establish your un-biblical adoration of Mary.
So I will answer you briefly with two scriptures:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one...(even Mary, in case you didn’t catch the implication)
Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Paul in Ephesians uses the same word of the “run of the mill” Christian as you claim gives “special” status to Mary in Luke 1:28.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5487&t=KJV
So to use your logic, I, and every other believer in Jesus Christ, is on EQUAL footing with Mary. Now while I agree with Scripture that every Christian believer is highly favored, I doubt you will stand behind your own logic about how to use the word spoken of Mary in the same way by applying it to all believers as Ephesians does.
If you/Catholics interpret the rest of Scripture the way you did in this post regarding “typology” it is no wonder your Catholic doctrine/dogma is so far from what the Bible teaches.
Interesting that you find the truth “funny.”
Thank you for the blessing. God’s best to you as well.
“”Long post to establish your un-biblical adoration of Mary.””
Biblical is a statement that can be backed up with 2000 years of Christian writings by people who were even involved in the canon of Scripture as well,not a modernists free thinker like yourself.
Try backing up your beliefs with HISTORICAL teaching if you expect to be taken seriously,dear friend
Typology is very important.
Here is an illustration from scripturecatholic.com on messianic prophecies fulfilled. You will accept these ,yet reject the one regarding the Blessed Mother
General Prophecies Concerning the Coming of Jesus
Gen. 49:10; Mic. 5:2 - a kingdom and ruler of Israel shall come from Judah - Mattt. 1:1-2, Luke 3:23,33 - Jesus is from the line of Judah.
Deut. 18:18 - He will be raised up as a prophet - Matt. 21:11, Luke 7:16; John 6:14; 7:40 - Jesus is identified as this prophet.
Psalm 2:6 - He will be a King - Matt. 21:5; John 18:36-37 - Jesus is this King.
Psalm 2:7 - you are my Son, today I have begotten you - Matt. 3:17; Acts 13:33 - God the Father said this about Jesus the Son.
Psalm 69:4; Isaiah 49:7 - He will be hated without a cause - John 15:25 - Jesus was hated without a cause.
Psalm 69:9 - zeal for thy house has consumed me - John 2:16-17 - zeal consumed Jesus as He drove out the traders.
Psalm 78:2 - He will speak in parables - Matt. 13:34-35 - Jesus spoke in parables.
Psalm 110:1; Jer. 23:6 - He will be called Lord - Matt. 22:43-45; Luke 2:11; Heb. 1:10 - Jesus is called Lord by the Lord.
Psalm 118:22; Isaiah 8:14; 28:16 - He will be the stone rejected by the builders - Acts 4:10-11; Rom. 9:32-33; 1 Peter 2:7-8 - Jesus is the stone rejected by the builders.
Psalm 118:26; Hag.2:7-9; Mal. 3:1 - He will come to the Temple - Matt. 21:12; John 2:13-17 - Jesus so came to the Temple.
Psalm 132:11; Jer. 23:5 - He, the king, shall come from the House of David - Matt. 1:1; Luke 3:23,31 - Jesus is the son of David.
Isaiah 6:9-10 - they hear but do not understand and see but do not perceive - Matt. 13:14-15; John 12:38-41 - this is why Jesus used parables.
Isaiah 7:14 - He will be born of a young virgin woman - Matt. 1:18, 24-25; Luke 1:26-35 - Jesus was born of the young virgin Mary.
Isaiah 9:1 - His ministry will make Galilee glorious - Matt 4:12-17 - Jesus begins His ministry in Galilee.
Isaiah 9:6 - a woman shall bear a son called Emmanuel (”God is with us”) - Luke 1:35 - Jesus is this one, the Son of God.
Isaiah 11:2 - the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him - Matt. 3:16-17 - the Spirit of God descended upon Jesus like a dove.
Isaiah 32:3-4; 35:5-6- His ministry will include miracles curing the blind, deaf, lame and dumb - Matt. 9:32-35 - Jesus so cured the blind, deaf, lame and dumb.
Isaiah 33:22 - He will be a judge - John 5:30 - Jesus is the judge who judges justly.
Isaiah 40:3; Mal. 3:1 - He will be preceded by a messenger - Mat. 3:1-3; 11:10; Luke 1:17; John 1:23 - Jesus was so preceded (by Saint John the Baptist).
Isaiah 53:3 - He will be rejected by His people - John 1:11; 7:5 - Jesus was rejected by His own people.
Isaiah 61:1-2 - the Spirit of the Lord is upon Him - Luke 4:21 - Jesus says that He has fulfilled this prophecy.
Zech. 9:9 - He will triumphantly enter Jerusalem on an ass - Matt. 21:5; Luke 19:35-38; John 12:14-17 - Jesus so entered Jerusalem.
Mic. 5:2 - Israel’s ruler shall come from Bethlehem - Matt. 2:1,4-8; Luke 2:4-7 - Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
Top
II. Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus in His Passion, Death, Resurrection and Ascension
Psalm 16:10; 30:3 - He will not be spared from death and yet remain incorrupt - Acts 2:31; 13:33,35 - Jesus conquered death and remained incorrupt.
Psalm 22:1 - My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me? - Matt. 27:46; Mark 15:34 - Jesus utters this rabbinical formula from the cross declaring that He is the Messiah.
Psalm 22:7 - the people will wag their heads at Him - Matt. 27:39; Mark 15:29 - the people wagged their heads at Jesus on the cross.
Psalm 22:7 - He will be mocked - Matt. 27:31; Mark 15:20; Luke 22:63; 23:36 - Jesus was mocked.
Psalm 22:16; Isa. 53:12 - He will be numbered with the transgressors - Matt. 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:32; John 19:18 - Jesus was numbered with the transgressors by being crucified between two thieves.
Psalm 22:16; Zech 12:10 - His hands and feet will be pierced and they will weep for the first-born - John 19:23,34,37 - Jesus’ hands and feet were pierced and his followers wept for Him, the true first-born Son of Israel.
Psalm 22:17 - they will stare and gloat over Him - Matt. 27:36; Luke 23:35 - the people stood by and stared at Jesus on the cross.
Psalm 22:18 - they will divide His garments among them - Matt. 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:23 - they divided Jesus’ garments among them.
Psalm 22:18 - they will cast lots for His garments - Matt. 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:24 - they cast lots for Jesus’ garments.
Psalm 30:3; 41:10, 118:17; Hos 6:2 - He will be raised to life on the third day - Acts 13:33, Matt. 28:6; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:34,46 - Jesus was raised to life on the third day.
Psalm 34:20 - He will not have broken bones - John 19:33,36 - none of Jesus’ bones were broken.
Psalm 41:9; 55:12-14 - He will be betrayed by a friend - Matt. 10:4; 26:20-25; Mark 14:18-21; John 13:18 - Jesus was betrayed by a friend.
Psalm 68:18 - He will ascend into heaven - Mark 16:19; Luke 24:51; John 20:17; Acts 1:9 - Jesus ascended into heaven.
Psalm 68:20 - He will escape the powers of death - Acts 2:31; 13:33; Matt 28:6; Mark 16:6, Luke 24:46; John 20:9-10 - Jesus escaped the powers of death through his resurrection.
Psalm 69:21 - they will give Him vinegar to drink - Matt. 27:34,48; Mark 15:23,36; Luke 23:36; John 19:29 - they gave Jesus vinegar to drink.
Psalm 110:1 - He will sit at the right hand of God - Heb. 1:3; Acts 2:34-35 - Jesus sits at the right hand of God.
Isaiah 50:6 - He will be spat upon - Matt. 26:67; Mark 15:19 - Jesus was spat upon.
Isaiah 50:6; Mic. 5:1 - the ruler of Israel’s cheek will be struck - Matt. 26:67; Luke 22:63; John 18:22 - Jesus was so struck and beaten.
Isaiah 53:5; Zech. 13:6 - He was wounded, bruised and scourged for us - Matt. 27:26; Mark 15:15; John 19:1 - Jesus was wounded, bruised and scourged for us.
Isaiah 53:7 - He will remain silent before His accusers - Matt. 27:12,14; Mark 14:61;15:5; Luke 23:9; John 19:9 - Jesus remained silent before His accusers.
Isaiah 53:8-10; Dan. 9:26 - the anointed one shall be cut off and die - Luke 23:46; 24:7; John 19:30 - Jesus the Messiah died.
Isaiah 53:9 - He will be buried in a rich man’s tomb - Matt. 27:57-60; Mark 15:42-46; Luke 23:50-53; John 19:38-42 - Jesus was buried in a rich man’s tomb (the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea).
Isaiah 53:12 - He will make intercession for the transgressors - Luke 23:34,43 - Jesus made intercession for the transgressors on the cross.
Amos 8:9 - God will darken the earth at noon - Matt. 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44-45 - there was darkness at noon at Jesus’ crucifixion and death.
Jonah 1:17 - three nights and days in the belly of the whale foreshadows Jesus’ death and rising on the third day.
Mic. 1:8 - He will lament and wail, and will go stripped and naked - John 19:23-24 - Jesus lamented and was stripped and naked.
Zech. 11:12-13 - He will be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver - Matt. 26:15 - Jesus was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver.
Zech. 11:13 - the pieces of silver are cast into God’s house - Matt. 27:5 - Judas threw the pieces of silver into the Temple.
Zech. 12:10 - His side will be pierced - John 19:34, 37 - Jesus’ side was pierced.
Zech. 13:7 - He will be forsaken by His disciples who will scatter - Matt. 26:31, Mark. 14:50 - Jesus’ disciples forsook Him and scattered.
I know you put a lot of effort into these long posts, and appreciate your diligence:
You posted: If you know of a Catholic who “worships” Mary then he or she is NOT a Catholic.
Then I know a lot of “Catholics” who are not Catholic. Mary receives more adoration from them than any other figure in their religion, including the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
You quoted Revelation 12:1-17, applying it to Mary.
So is it Mary fleeing into the wilderness in verse 6 (which I noticed you omitted from your exposition)?
Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Is it Mary in verses 12-17 (which you also omitted)
Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Regarding your contention that Mary was the “ark of God” the Bible teached that EVERY believer is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and not just for a season, but for eternity.
You stated: The fact is, Mary had no other children, only Jesus.
NO, not fact, Catholic speculation/supposition.
Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
I guess if Joseph and Mary never consummated their marriage, then they were never really “officially” married, which I suppose would suit Catholics fine.
Your comment that “You must remember that the way of speech and interpretations in Jesus’ day is far different then the way we imply today.” is a nice smokescreen for Catholic dogma.
For instance, are we to take Jesus’ statement “Behold my mother and my brethren! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven, he is my brother and sister and mother.” as literally as we take his statement about his blood and body? Or is He only speaking symbolically here?
By the way, I honor Mary as a wonderful sister in Christ, uniquely used of God, and saved by Jesus like any other sinner. Anything more is extra-biblical and usually anti-biblical.
Hey, you’re pretty good at cutting and pasting.
Just because I agree with some Catholic teachings, or they agree with mine, and/or they agree with the Bible, certainly doesn’t mean, nor should it, that I agree with all of them.
Any comments about Ephesians 1:6 and the use of the same word used of Mary in Luke 1:28?
BTW, I thought the Bible was/is HISTORICAL teaching, inspired by God, unlike the historical writings of the church fathers which are filled with error and disagreement along with their valid observations. If your appeal is to extra-biblical writers, they are entitled to their opinion, as you are entitled to yours.
“”Hey, you’re pretty good at cutting and pasting.””
I named the website,so it’s not an issue
unlike the historical writings of the church fathers which are filled with error and disagreement along with their valid observations
Without the Church fathers you have no idea the NT is from God because there is not a single autograph from the Apostles. You believe them because the Church Fathers say they were inspired and gave you the canon.
Read thier lives ,dear friend and how many were brutally murdered to give you those Scriptures you read in the comfort of your home.
Perhaps your perspective may change
Correction -this statement should have been listed as quoted from you..
“”unlike the historical writings of the church fathers which are filled with error and disagreement along with their valid observations””
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