Posted on 04/29/2010 10:34:06 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
According to you every one that has ever been a Catholic is a permanent Catholic, no matter what they do.
According to you, Glenn Beck is a Catholic.
Not going after anyone in particular, especially not you.
The shame — meant — a shame that people don’t pray.
Didn’t mean for you to take it that way.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
On what issue? Catholics have always been ferociously anti-communist forever. And voting Republican does not mean voting right on issues. Cathoilics supported the Vietnam War under Kennedy , Johnson, and Nixon. They supported Nixon over McGovern in 1972. Until 1976, the Republican Party was the pro-abortion party. Gerald Ford was more pro-abortion than Carter.
When you examine the black vote, it is even worse than you think, Roosevelt permanently bought them off in one single election, the switch took place that election and has never gone back.
There was no gradual political movement or political growth, it was an open purchase, and it flipped them completely.
By the way, next to blacks is the Jewish vote, about a 100 year average of 75% liberal hitting 90% several times, I have never found a Jewish vote for an American president, they are much worse than Hispanics, or even homosexuals, and even worse than Catholic Hispanics.
There was no gradual political movement or political growth, it was an open purchase, and it flipped them completely.
In 1936 there was no legalized abortion and no movement to create "gay marriage." As I said, it isn't the economic issues that surprise me. It's the fact that all mainstream Black politicians bought into the radical, unheard of ideologies spawned from the Sixties, and there was no line they were unwilling to cross.
By the way, next to blacks is the Jewish vote, about a 100 year average of 75% liberal hitting 90% several times, I have never found a Jewish vote for an American president, they are much worse than Hispanics, or even homosexuals, and even worse than Catholic Hispanics.
This is well known and a frequent topic of heated conversations here on FR.
Catholics gave us Vietnam and the third world conquest of our nation, they put Kennedy in office, they tried to put Humphrey in office, they kept Roosevelt in office, Carter, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Obama, Catholics vote liberal.
Obama sits in that office today with 55% of Protestants having voted against him, while Catholics gave him a solid 54%, even Hispanics that are Protestant only gave him 52% of their vote.
I got you now, politicians, preachers, church goers, non church goers, American blacks never blinked.
You are correct, and that baffles all of us, I'm always at a loss on trying to explain that, I have a sense that it isn't pretty and I'm glad that we never go down that road here.
I don’t think the point of all this is so much about what percentage of Catholics vote for one party or the other versus what percentage of Protestants vote for one party or the other. The far more important point is what in the name of heaven do either Catholic or Protestant clergy think they are doing by engaging in political commentary at all? They have no business doing so. They were not called by the Lord of the Church to do any such thing. The only difference between Catholic and Protestant on this point is that Catholic clergy, following the long-standing example of the popes, have been interfering in political matters for centuries, to the neglect of the true spiritual needs of their people.
There is a reason Jesus told all to render to Caesar what is Caesar’s. There is a reason that Paul and Peter both commanded Christians to honor the king. There is a reason that you will not find the apostles ever interfering in matters that concern the left hand kingdom of God (government/politics). Their Lord gave them plenty to do in the kingdom of His right hand. It is a certainty that whenever clergy are messing around in the kingdom of the left, be they Protestant or Catholic, they are neglecting their God given duties in the kingdom of the right ... and the souls of people are left to pay the price. It is not simply shameful; it is sinful.
Henry Cabot Lodge gave us Vietnam as much as Kennedy did. He was the one who gave the go ahead for the murder of the Diem brothers. Catholics voted for Eisenhower in 1956, and McCarthy was a Catholic. Some Catholics are liberal. Most mainstream Protestant bodies are liberal.
So what church do you belong to?
Where do you go on Sunday?
Or do you go to church more than three times a week like I do?
Luther and Calvin certainly interfered in political affairs. Zwingli was killed in battle. John Knox took part in the deposition of Mary Stuart from the Scottish throne. The Huguenots were as much a political group as religious. The so-called “Religious” Wars were caused by the mingling of political and religious interests. The Church of England was a religious monopoly maintained by the Crown, and to this day no Catholic can sit on that throne. The New England colonies had —except for Rhode Island—Established churches. One reason for the First Amendment was to keep Congress from violating the rights of those state Establishments. etc.
Too much effort for me, when you start saying that the president did not get us into his war, then you are doing what is so common on these threads and among salesmen, you want to weave a tale, sell a narrative in an effort to overcome the actual facts.
The voting graph in post 62 tells a gruesome tale, and mainline Protestant are still voting Republican, and to the right of Catholics.
Think 2008 and Obama.
I know that Catholics voted for Obama, and have always been a very dependable Democrat constituency.
It is their duty, I want Catholics to take over their churches and demand more red blood and meat from their priests, and I want them to try and force their church to so something about the liberal indoctrination that Hispanic Catholics are getting.
I will add, so that I am not misunderstood, that there is nothing wrong with Christians becoming active in politics. But they should do so as citizens not of the kingdom of God’s right hand, i.e., as Christians, but as citizens of their nation, whichever it is. In our country government is constitutionally to be of, by, and for the people. The Constitution (along with its precursor document, the Declaration of Independence) functions as our “king,” governing all the people, including those in the government itself.
All valid argumentation and discourse under the Constitution is to be made under the authority of nature’s God, which was simply the founders’ way of referring to the One we Christians would more comfortably call “God Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth” or “our Father who art in heaven.” But because those whose duties and authority is, by definition, in the kingdom of the left, simply “God” or “nature’s God” is as far as they have in the past and should in the future go in identifying and defining God according to their duly held offices. Why? Because God didn’t call them to preach and teach about Him and His beloved and only-begotten Son, and so oversee the hearts of men, but rather to govern only the actions of men, and so oversee the conduct of men.
Today, unfortunately, politicians of the left to a greater extent and politicians of the right to a lesser extent co-opt and corrupt the church in all its many visible denominations in order to accomplish their earth-bound, temporary, and political purposes. To the extent the leaders of the church allow themselves and their people to be co-opted to such purposes they do wrong, whether the issue itself is right or wrong. And in the meantime, they neglect their duties to pursue issues that are spiritual and eternal. Their people suffer and the nation not only is not benefitted, but it becomes more and more confused as to who is to be doing what, who is to be proclaiming what to whom, and respect for all authority, of both the right and left hand kingdoms of God is lessened in the eyes and hearts of all. This is the mess we have made for ourselves.
As long as you are interested in facts, Mainline Protestant does not include evangelicals. Ir means Episcopal, Presbyterians, Methodist, and northern Baptist. Only Southern Baptists tend to support conservative causes.
Yes, and to the extent any of them did (and some did so in rather minor ways and others in more significant ways), they did wrong. I already said that. But do not forget that Roman popes had been interfering grossly and directly with secular government and raw politics for centuries before the Reformation (think Crusades, for one example).
But, again, the point is that Christ gave the church one thing to do and earthly government another thing to do. When one presumes to do the other’s work, watch out!
The popes were engaged for several centuries in keeping the secular authority from gaining control of the Church. That would be from the late 10th to the 13th Century the Holy Roman Emperor. Thereafter the national kings. As for the Crusades, this was the pope’s response to the Turkish threat to the Byzantine Empire. In the last quarter of the 11th Century, what is now Turkey was overrun by the Muslim Turks and Constantinople itself was threatened. The Byzantine Emperor asked the pope for help, and he preached the first Crusade. It did take the political pressure off from the Church, which was threatened by the Normans who had taken control of Sicily and who were also ambitious to gain pieces of Greece. The pope was the main organizer of resistence to the Muslims.
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