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He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (John 14:21)


12 posted on 06/05/2010 3:53:26 PM PDT by webboy45
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To: webboy45; SZonian; greyfoxx39; T Minus Four; Vendome; reaganaut; Tennessee Nana
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (John 14:21)

(Webboy, thanks for making our point. Mormons tend to de-contextualize everything, and stress only what fits their pre-conceived Smithian perspective).

Yes, John 14:21 says, in effect, that by keeping His commandments, we show that we love Him.
And what also does John 14:15 say?
And John 14:23?
And John 14:24?

15"If you love me, you will obey what I command...
23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. (John 14:15, 23-24)

Notice, Webboy, how Jesus reverses the order in each of those three verses:
* If you first love Jesus [the relationship comes first], then you'll obey Jesus. (paraphrase of 14:15)
* If you first love Jesus [the relationship comes first], then you'll obey His teaching (paraphrase of 14:23)
* And if you don't love Jesus [the relationship comes first], then you won't obey Jesus (paraphrase of 14:24)

Now, it's true, Webboy, that once the relationship is in place, obedience is still expected (John 14:21). But obedience doesn't determine or drive the relationship. It completes and reinforces it! Faith works!

A wife who loves her husband will serve him; a husband who loves his wife will serve her. Neither pull a "Oh, I'll win his/her heart by showing all the good works I can do on their behalf" shenanigans as a courtship maneuver. It's not, "I'm going to change God's mind about who I am by my works." He already knows you perfectly, Webboy! The question always is, "Do we know Him? Do we have a highly communicative, intimate, interactive relationship with Him...that includes and leads to further serving Him?"

So, note the order of your emphasis, Webboy. And for that single order of how Jesus presented that (John 14:21), he highlighted the reverse order three times. Because love and relationship and knowing and communication need to be at the center of our relationship with God -- just like it is to be in the family. Any family that is a drill sargeant orientation; or a chore completion orientation; is a bit off-kilter.

Yet, indeed, if you love your parents, a kid will do their chores! (see the order distinction???)

15 posted on 06/05/2010 4:23:09 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: webboy45
He that hath my commandments,

And just exactly what WERE Jesus' 'commandments'?

25 posted on 06/05/2010 10:26:41 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...))
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