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To: johngrace
'If we believe not, ye he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself'(2Tim.13)

You will note that Rev.3:11 mentions loss of crowns, not salvation.(1Cor.3:14-15) 'Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward' (2Jn.8)

Rev.3:15 is speaking to a church, not individuals.

'For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, or things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creture shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord' (Rom.8:38-39)

All you guys who claim that you can lose your salvation after you have been saved, must think you deserve to go to heaven because you are sinless.

126 posted on 06/28/2010 3:44:19 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: fortheDeclaration
The Bible says salvation depends on several things, not just the simple believe/confess formula your friend holds to. Point out that in 1 John, St. John is speaking to Christians (ie. believers who had accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior (cf. chapter 2:12-14), when he says, "If we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing" (1 John 1:8-9).

Notice that St. John includes himself in this category by using the word "we." Ask what would happen if she did not confess her sins. What would happen if she confessed with her mouth but wasn't truly repentant? Would God forgive her anyway? If she says yes, she contradicts the biblical passages that say unrepented sin will not be forgiven and nothing sinful or unclean can enter into heaven (cf. Hab. 1:13; Rev. 21:8- 9, 27).

HE is talking to Christians.

"If we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing" (1 John 1:8-9).

Notice "IF" and If we do not he is not faithful to Forgive otherwise why use the word "If".

It's a state of Grace. It's Gift(Free) which has to be maintained like anything given to you to keep.

You ask for help till the hour of your death

Because you could die as you go to do daily things.

Look this all started with a guy who took books out of the bible. Also wanted take out the Book Of James and Revelation

Thats a mad man.

127 posted on 06/28/2010 4:02:43 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: fortheDeclaration
The Bible says salvation depends on several things, not just the simple believe/confess formula your friend holds to. Point out that in 1 John, St. John is speaking to Christians (ie. believers who had accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior (cf. chapter 2:12-14), when he says, "If we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing" (1 John 1:8-9).

Notice that St. John includes himself in this category by using the word "we." Ask what would happen if she did not confess her sins. What would happen if she confessed with her mouth but wasn't truly repentant? Would God forgive her anyway? If she says yes, she contradicts the biblical passages that say unrepented sin will not be forgiven and nothing sinful or unclean can enter into heaven (cf. Hab. 1:13; Rev. 21:8- 9, 27).

HE is talking to Christians.

"If we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing" (1 John 1:8-9).

Notice "IF" and If we do not he is not faithful to Forgive otherwise why use the word "If".

It's a state of Grace. It's Gift(Free) which has to be maintained like anything given to you to keep.

You ask for help till the hour of your death

Because you could die as you go to do daily things.

Look this all started with a guy who took books out of the bible. Also wanted take out the Book Of James and Revelation

Thats a mad man.

128 posted on 06/28/2010 4:04:02 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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