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To: hopespringseternal
James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. Maybe you should read it again.

And maybe you should read a dictionary and learn that the word justification has more than one meaning. The justificaiton spoken of in James is speaking of the legal sense,'a showing to be just or conformable to law' In the theological sense (Paul) it is the 'act of free grace by which God pardons a sinner and accepts him as righteous' (Webster 1828)

Now, what does the NAS, a RCC bible have to say about James 2. vs Paul.

'...Paul argues against those who claim to particpate in God's salvation because of their good deeds as well as because they have committed themselves to trust in God through Jesus Christ (Paul's concept of faith). The author of James is well aware that proper conduct can only come about with an authentic commitment to God in faith. (NAS fn).

By the way, faith is a work. Belief is a work.

Faith is not a work.

'But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifeth the ungodly, his FAITH is counted for righteousness (Rom.4:5)

You are making the assumption that as soon as you admit even one "work" as necessary to salvation you are preaching that our works are the power that saves us. You are running from a straw man of your own construction.

I am asking you what is the basis for your salvation.

You say that works are part of it.

If works have no power to save you, than they have nothing to do with your salvation.

It is your logic that is flawed.

You are denying the law of excluded middle, either works are needed for salvation or they aren't.

Which is it?

The supernatural work of salvation that is the power that saves us was done on the cross by Jesus. When Paul says that salvation is not work works, this is what he is talking about. He was battling Judaizing teachers who were trying to put Christians on the same treadmill that did not even work under the old law. (The Pharisee who felt justified in his "righteousness" verses the tax collector was was justified because of his repentent heart.)

So, works aren't necessary to salvation?

And the FN to the RCC NAS doesn't say that Paul was only speaking of the Jewish law, he states that Paul was speaking of good deeds.

Maybe you should read Ephesians 2:10 -- God intended for us to do good works in His kingdom from the begining.

Yes, those good works are a RESULT of being already saved, which is made clear in Eph.2:9, NOT OF WORKS.

So, are works are necessary for one's salvation or do the works SHOW that one is saved?

That is what Eph.2:10 is speaking about, a saved man, who performs good works because God is working through him.

None of those works contribute to that individual's salvation, they are a RESULT of it.

Regarding the Luke 18, it is you 'faith plus works' individuals who are the Pharisee's, standing around thinking you deserve heaven for what YOU are doing, instead of what Christ DID for you.

134 posted on 06/29/2010 6:11:34 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: fortheDeclaration
Faith is not a work.

John 6:29 29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

James says that our works are necessary to salvation. James even goes so far as to call those who believe in faith alone foolish in James 2:20:
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

You are trying to redefine the book of James to match your doctrine rather than changing your doctrine to match James.

Romans 6:16
Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Even Paul says that obedience leads to righteousness.

141 posted on 06/29/2010 5:23:58 PM PDT by hopespringseternal
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