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To: hopespringseternal
Romans 4:5 -
5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

Romans 3:20 -
20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28 -
28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Galatians 2:21 -
21"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Ephesians 2:8 & 9 -
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 3:5 -
5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Keeping the commandments is important, (Eph. 2:10; John 14:15). They are the proof of salvation not the means of it.

Christ specifically said that he who does not keep the commandments the truth (or faith) is not in him:

John 14:21 - " He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

John explains in I John 2:4 that those who DON'T keep the commandments aren't really in the faith - "The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;"

Once you add keeping the commandments (faith + works) as a means of justification (rather than their intended function of sanctification) you've just slapped Christ in the face and told Him his shed blood wasn't good enough.

True genuing saving faith will ALWAYS be accompanied by 'works' or keeping the commandments (James 2:18.... I will show you my faith by my works). That section doesn't mean we are 'saved' by keeping the commandments, it means we prove we are not saved if we don't!

Don't confuse sanctification with justification. The verses I posted above (along with the entire books of Ephesians, Galatians and Romans) prove your belief that its not faith alone that justifies to be error. Either that or you're going to have to get a pair of scissors and start cutting out huge hunks of Scripture.

82 posted on 06/27/2010 12:10:01 PM PDT by conservativegramma
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To: conservativegramma
Paul is talking about the old law, not the law of Christ which we are bound to keep.

In reality, even under the old law the Jews were not saved by perfect adherence, that is, they were saved by faith as well. But in neither the old law or the new law is obedience optional. We are saved by works in the same way we are saved by grace, faith, confession, repentance, baptism, and hearing.

Or do you suppose that someone can be saved without repentence? Of all we must do, that is probably the hardest, harder than probably any other command.

Those who preach faith only need to take a long hard look at James 2, espcially James 2:24 where James explicitly says that we are not saved by faith alone. You must look at Paul's writings with James 2 in mind, just as you must look at James 2 through Paul's writings.

Far too long we have simply pulled Paul out of context because it suited the televangelism gospel of "pray and pay (me)".

86 posted on 06/27/2010 1:32:29 PM PDT by hopespringseternal
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To: conservativegramma

That is indeed the error of Rome, that the faithful “by those very works which have been done in God,...have truly merited eternal life.” While faith without works is dead, it is God-given faith out of a poor and contrite heart, which exalts God and debases man, which results in righteousness being imputed to the believer.

As man has a sinful proclivity to suppose that his works will merit him eternal life, or that a faith that has no works will save him, the Bible establishes that one is justified by faith thru grace alone, but not by a faith which is alone.

And it is not enough to simply hold to this doctrinally, as due to man’s Adamic proclivity, the sinner must be convicted of his utter inability to justify himself, and desperate need for salvation. Treating souls as Christians based upon their infant baptism, and fostering hope that the power of the church will help to finally gain them eternal life, is not what Biblical preaching manifests.


87 posted on 06/27/2010 1:55:45 PM PDT by daniel1212 ("Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out " (Acts 3:19))
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To: conservativegramma
This is really the Catholic Perspective

Romans 4:5 -

5But to the one who does not work(Old Law ), but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,-

Romans 3:20 -

20because by the works of the(Old ) Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the(Old) Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28 -

28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from (Old)works of the Law.

Galatians 2:21 -

21"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the(Old) Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Ephesians 2:8 & 9 -

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of(Old) works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 3:5 -

5He saved us, not on the basis of (Old Work)deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

94 posted on 06/27/2010 3:15:51 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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