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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; RnMomof7; MarkBsnr; stfassisi
Goodness, FK, I don't know where to start! :)  You will have to forgive me for replying piecemeal. 

In the sanctification of the believer our glorification is implied as the last event in the change from glory to glory

Are you saying implied to avoid saying presumed?

The apostle Paul put glorification as the last and final event in the process of salvation (Rom. 8:28-30).

But  it doesn't say it has to be a life-long process! Grammatically, Paul is saying God already did that as a matter of fact, a finished, accomplished act (aorist, active, indicative). You of all people are the one who insists on interpreting the scriptures contextually, as a totality and not isolated verses. Well, Paul repeatedly uses the same grammatical form to drive the point that once you accept Chest you are saved, justified and sanctified. Period.

So, where are you getting this "life-long" process from?

The greatest promise in the Scriptures is when Christ appears, “we shall be like Him.”

What does  that mean to be like him? In what way will you be like him? Will you be perfect? Immortal? Holy? Glorified?

If the answer is yes to any or all, then you believe that you and all like you will one day be divine because only God is believed to be perfect and immortal, holy and glorified forever. How, then, does your belief differ from the LDS(Mormons)?

Glorification is a perfect, indisputable standing before God in the day of judgment (Rom. 5:6-11). In glorification believers shall be in a state of complete exoneration for any possible change

Nothing in these verses says anything about being "glorified."

I did not realize there was any controversy within Christianity on the concept of entering Heaven with glorified bodies and without the stain of sin. Do Latins or Orthodox dispute this?

They teach that the souls of the departed, who did not repent of all their sins before physical death, undergo "purification," the nature of which is a subject of dispute among them.

In this intermediate state, the souls of the saved are eventually "purified." and united to their new bodies at the Last (Dread) Judgment. I have never heard of them being referred to as "glorified."

It seems proper that the glory belongs only to God, as the appendix to the Lord's Prayer says "and Thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory for ever. Amen."

So if the "saved" will be "perfected," and shall "inherit the kingdom," and "glorified" then they will be divine! The whole concept of man being glorified is preposterous, imo. It implies that man, a creature, is elevated to the level of the creator, a pot elevated to the level of the potter, a chair made equal to the carpenter who made it, a thing begotten made equal to its maker. How can God "glorify" man unless man is made equal to God!?!

Where do you see reference to "glorified bodies" of the saved in the Bible? I really don't know where you are getting this from, FK. [...to be continued]

15,677 posted on 11/09/2010 1:29:28 AM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; RnMomof7; MarkBsnr; stfassisi
[From the article I cited = "FTA":] In the sanctification of the believer our glorification is implied as the last event in the change from glory to glory

Are you saying implied to avoid saying presumed?

I think the author just means that we may reasonably infer from Paul in Rom. 8:28-30 that glorification is the last event. It seems clear that this author follows Sola Scriptura, and that includes what may be reasonably inferred from the text.

FTA: The apostle Paul put glorification as the last and final event in the process of salvation (Rom. 8:28-30).

But it doesn't say it has to be a life-long process! Grammatically, Paul is saying God already did that as a matter of fact, a finished, accomplished act (aorist, active, indicative).

As the articles cited indicate, the totality of scripture describes at least three uses of the concept of sanctification. All are correct for their purposes. Similarly, the concept of "saved" is used in more than one sense and tense. All of those uses are likewise correct. Citing one use in one passage in no way invalidates the others.

So, where are you getting this "life-long" process from?

From other passages of scripture which describe it, such as the ones already posted. The "all or nothing" approach simply does not apply. If we claim "Ah-Ha", the Bible is wrong because it uses the concept of sanctification in more that one tense or sense, then we might as well say the same thing about the concept of love.

FTA: The greatest promise in the Scriptures is when Christ appears, “we shall be like Him.”

What does that mean to be like him? In what way will you be like him? Will you be perfect? Immortal? Holy? Glorified?

We will be restored to His image without the stain of sin. (Per your later question) see also:

Phil 3:20-21 : 20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

The precise mechanics are not given but there will be some sort of transformation. And of course the image is not the thing so there is no pretense of any of us becoming Divine. God alone is Divine and always will be.

FK: I did not realize there was any controversy within Christianity on the concept of entering Heaven with glorified bodies and without the stain of sin. Do Latins or Orthodox dispute this?

.......... In this intermediate state, the souls of the saved are eventually "purified." and united to their new bodies at the Last (Dread) Judgment. I have never heard of them being referred to as "glorified."

That's interesting. I wonder what their interpretation is of verses like Rom. 8:30.

So if the "saved" will be "perfected," and shall "inherit the kingdom," and "glorified" then they will be divine!

I don't think that follows. The elect can all be saved, perfected, inheritors of the kingdom and glorified all still without having the eternal essence or Divine nature of God. For example, we know there is and will be worship in Heaven (e.g. Rev. 7:9-11) so we cannot be equal to God there.

15,681 posted on 11/09/2010 7:50:54 PM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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