And I imagine you know that because he whispered that in your ear?
My "catching myself" and "deciding" are merely my becoming aware of Holy Spirit's work.
How is that different from what Andrea Yates believed when she drowned her five children—claiming God told her to do so?
It's unknowable since one nutjob belief is not necessarily automatically disqualifying for Christianity
Yeah, well, that's abundantly clear just reading these threads. The only problem is what qualifies one as a Christian? And where does the word Christian appear in the Bible? And where is December 25 noted in the Bible as the day Jesus was born? Traditions of men, right? That's what determines who is a Christian, FK; whatever an individual believer decides, or a group of believers decide. That's what Protestantism created.
OR, God might cause it since He is known to confound the wicked
Sure, the Old Testament God becomes a "deceiving spirit" (1 Kings 22:22-23; 2 Chronicles 18:21) to deceive those he doesn't like. I guess we could call that "divine deception," couldn't we? :)
So, how do we know who is being deceived (how could one know? Isn't that what deception is all about?). Then how does one "know" that he is being led by the Holy Spirit instead of being deceived? Wouldn't someone being deceived think he is being led by the Holy Spirit? Doesn't even the Bible say the satan can appear as the Angel of Light?
If the master of lies is always out there trying to deceive, wouldn't he try to appear as someone who is telling the truth at all times? There would never, ever, be any reason to suspect him of lying. So how do you know you are not being deceived?
Even Paul warns you "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons." [1 Timothy 4:1]
Wouldn't the Protestant Reform, some 1,500 years later, qualify as the "later times"? :)
Sure they do, all I'm saying is that in some cases God is directly behind it.
Or maybe he or the devil is just deceiving you? :)
I see "absolute certainty" as a relative term, which science has proved over and over
Only a lawyer could say that and believe it. :) Science does not claim 100% certainty on anything. Science is based on probability. Religious certainty is not relativism; it's absolute, dogmatic certainty. No believer can say the chance that Jesus resurrected from the dead is 99.9% certain, with 0.1% chance he didn't!
And I imagine you know that because he whispered that in your ear?
I see it as a pretty basic Biblical principle. For example:
So if Holy Spirit guided a CHRISTIAN down the wrong path then it would not bring glory to Christ.
FK: My "catching myself" and "deciding" are merely my becoming aware of Holy Spirit's work.
How is that different from what Andrea Yates believed when she drowned her five children—claiming God told her to do so?
Because the desire and actions moved in opposite directions. My desire started off wrong and then changed to a Godly one according to scripture. Yates' started off fine and then changed to a decision that served satan according to scripture. That's a big difference.
The only problem is what qualifies one as a Christian?
True faith in the Biblical Christ.
And where does the word Christian appear in the Bible?
The NIV, NKJV, and the ESV all have it in Acts 26:28 :
But regardless of what other translations say the concept of followers and believers in Christ is throughout the Bible, obviously especially in the NT.
And where is December 25 noted in the Bible as the day Jesus was born?
Nowhere.
Traditions of men, right?
Absolutely.
That's what determines who is a Christian, FK; whatever an individual believer decides, or a group of believers decide. That's what Protestantism created.
I don't think things like whether the words "Christian" or "Trinity" are in the Bible or whether one believes Jesus was actually born on 12/25 has anything to do with whether one is a Christian. A Christian is one who has been graced and has come to faith.
So, how do we know who is being deceived (how could one know? Isn't that what deception is all about?). Then how does one "know" that he is being led by the Holy Spirit instead of being deceived?
We always have the Bible as the standard bearer. I'm not aware of any cases where God deceives a believer, so with non-believers it can be hard to tell if it is the Lord or not, but if a good is claimed that is actually evil according to scripture then a deception is occurring one way or the other.
Wouldn't someone being deceived think he is being led by the Holy Spirit? Doesn't even the Bible say the satan can appear as the Angel of Light?
For professing, but false believers this could well be the case. The "Lord, Lord" crowd whom Jesus turned His back on might be an example.
If the master of lies is always out there trying to deceive, wouldn't he try to appear as someone who is telling the truth at all times?
Yes, as we see in many places in scripture. That is why we are told to be of discerning hearts, and believers have the Holy Spirit indwelling to help them. We still blow it here and there, losing a few battles, but never the war.
Even Paul warns you "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons." [1 Timothy 4:1] Wouldn't the Protestant Reform, some 1,500 years later, qualify as the "later times"? :)
Well, yes :), but I've never heard of any demons teaching to adhere closely to the Bible, so I think we're ok on that front. :) When satan "quoted" scripture to Jesus in the desert he left out key phrases that changed the meaning completely.
FK: I see "absolute certainty" as a relative term, which science has proved over and over
Only a lawyer could say that and believe it. :) Science does not claim 100% certainty on anything. Science is based on probability.
I fully agree.
Religious certainty is not relativism; it's absolute, dogmatic certainty. No believer can say the chance that Jesus resurrected from the dead is 99.9% certain, with 0.1% chance he didn't!
On core principles (like the resurrection) I agree, but on everything else I don't. A Latin and I can both be true believers with me saying I am 99% certain I am saved by grace through faith alone and the Latin saying he is 99% sure that he is saved by grace plus faith plus works. So with most of the things we talk about around here I think "absolute certainty" is relative.