Replies

First ampu states this,

[aMorePerfectUnion]Yes, HE came to die for the UNGODLY! Not the “worthy”. Any other supposed qualification comes from cultic heresy. If you are not UNGODLY, Christ’s death is not for you.

Then ampu creates a strawman,

[aMorePerfectUnion]You made a claim and accused me of misreading the Bible.
I pointed out that Christ died for the UNGODLY, as the Bible clearly says.

My argument was never that Christ died for the ungodly, of course he did.

My real arguement was:

Christ came for everyone and invites all men to follow him. There can be NO GODLY people with out the atonement of Christ. Jesus Christ paid the price for sin for all those who would follow Him.

[aMorePerfectUnion] If you are not UNGODLY, Christ’s death is not for you.

Utterly devoid of truth.

Which I clearly stated. But ampu and godzilla decided to run off and post over and over about an argument I never made. Thus the strawman.

There is no one that Christ didn't die for.

Which I clearly stated. But ampu and godzilla decided to run off and post over and over about an argument I never made. Thus the strawman.

LOL, careful with that fire mr. scarecrow - you might just get burnt. You forget a key component to your little bale of straw stourme

[Stourme]“We are saved by the grace of Christ. Christ has put qualifications on who will receive that grace.”

Lurkers will note - the key point being obfuscated by mormon apologists on this point is that there are PRE-REQUSITE requirements to receiving the grace of Christ. Lets be clear about 'grace' found in the bible within this context. By definition is it the UNEARNED favor of God. Hopefully you didn't have trouble reading that stourme. When you put 'qualifications' on that 'grace', as Paul says, it ceases to be grace. Therefore Christ died for ONLY ungodly men is correct - if you are already 'godly', you would already be sinless as well (at least according to mormon doctrine).

The simple fact that Rom 5:6 & 8 Christ died for us while we were BOTH ungodly and sinners, within the entire book of Romans, we do not have to do anything to EARN that salvation.

No, the strawman is the extra-biblical attempt by mormons to force the NT to conform to the bom - in that it is his grace, AFTER ALL WE CAN DO. Mormons cannot tell us at what point they have done all they can do to merit this 'grace' (a perversion on the use of the word in the bible). They can NEVER tell us at what point they've done enough to be saved. Elsewhere in the bom, it tells that ONLY AFTER you are completely godly - THEN is his 'grace' sufficient.

There is no one that Jesus didn't die for. But the salvation offered by Christ is not something that can be earned by works of righteousness - but strictly by grace. Paul said it best -

Ga 2:21* I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If you are godly - Christ died in vain. Stop frustrating the grace of God stourme.

Stourme,

I just reread your post: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2622457/posts?page=100#100

You claim there are conditions that you must meet to receive salvation.

I pointed out that Christ died for the ungodly- not for those who “try to be worthy.

You said that was “utterly devoid of truth.”

You were wrong. It was exactly what the Apostle Paul wrote.

As it turns out, your post was false.

If you believe what you posted, you will spend eternity in hell.

It will be because you refused to acknowledge that you are ungodly and tried to earn your own worthiness.

You can instead, turn to Him and acknowledge your own sinfulness, ungodliness and utter inability to live righteously.

Will you?