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From the article: Mormons are quick to point to Missouri Governor Bogg's Mormon "Extermination Order" but fail to consider Sydney Rigdon's "Salt Sermon" about trampling and hanging dissenters, the role of slavery, the historical events that led to Bogg's order and the latter attempt on his life. What most people miss is the correct definition of "extermination" in the 1835 time period. Webster's Dictionary of 1828 under "exterminate" has: "Literally, to drive from within the limits or borders. Hence, 1. To destroy utterly; to drive away...."

George W. Givens, a Mormon author, likewise pointed this out in his book 500 Little-Known Facts in Mormon History: Latter-day Saints have universally condemned the notorious Haun's Mill Massacre by a mom-militia shortly after Missouri Governor Boggs issued the infamous extermination order...a second look at the definition of the word "exterminate" as it was used in 1838, however, might cause us to take a second look at Governor Boggs as well. An American Dictionary of English Language, published in 1828, defines "exterminate" as "literally, to drive from within the limits or borders." (p. 26) Bonneville Books, 2004

BTW, Givens mentions Haun's Mill. The correct spelling, they've discovered, was Hawn -- not Haun. And Jacob Hawn was not even a Mormon...so FINALLY the Lds church-owned Deseret News reported in 2010: Setting the record straight on the 'Hawn's' Mill Massacre

1 posted on 11/15/2010 10:04:35 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

I’ll say it again - There is a huge diffeence between being persecuted for your religious beliefs and being held accountible for crimes committed while “practicing” your beliefs. Crimes like adultery, statuatory rape and arson.


2 posted on 11/15/2010 10:08:32 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: All
From the article: Mormons are quick to point to Missouri Governor Bogg's Mormon "Extermination Order" but fail to consider Sydney Rigdon's "Salt Sermon" about trampling and hanging dissenters...

To add even more to the complexity of why people acted as they did, the Lds Church History; Selections from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism adds three more reasons:
(a) Sidney Rigdon's June 19, 1838 "Salt Sermon" reinforced local Mormon opposition;
(b) Lds militia officer Sampson Avard initiated a vigilante group known as the Danites
(c) Rigdon's July 4, 1838 "inflammatory" sermon was the independence of the church from mobocracy. Rigdon "warned of a war of extermination between Mormons and their enemies if they were further threatened or harassed." (Leland H. Gentry, Church History, p. 343). Lds writer Max Parkin conceded that Rigdon's June 19 and July 4 messages "further incensed the public against expanding LDS influences." (Church History, p. 348).

Certainly, what we almost NEVER hear from contemporary Mormon posters is that apparently the first group to threaten the other with "extermination" in Missouri wasn't Gov. Boggs. 'Twas Lds leader Sidney Rigdon four months prior to that!

3 posted on 11/15/2010 10:10:08 AM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Colofornian
If the LDS think they are being persecuted, they chould look here:

VOICE OF THE MARTYRS

4 posted on 11/15/2010 10:10:24 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: All; Gamecock
Gamecock posted this article back in July 2008: Violence in Early Mormonism - Was It All Unjust Persecution?

Here were two highly relevant excerpts:

[Author had just cited Lds apostle Bruce McConkie]: McConkie's dramatic rhetoric fails to take into account the fact that the Haun's Mill massacre took place just one week after the battle of Crooked River. [Former BYU History professor] Quinn writes: "A generally unacknowledged dimension of both the extermination order and the Haun's Mill massacre, however, is that they resulted from Mormon actions in the Battle of Crooked River. Knowingly or not, Mormons had attacked state troops, and this had a cascade effect… upon receiving news of the injuries and death of state troops at Crooked River, Governor Boggs immediately drafted his extermination order on 27 October 1838 because the Mormons 'have made war upon the people of this state.' Worse, the killing of one Missourian and mutilation of another while he was defenseless at Crooked River led to the mad-dog revenge by Missourians in the slaughter at Haun's Mill" (Origins of Power, p.100).

#2:

If violence against a certain faith were the only way to determine truth, then certainly the Mormons themselves would have to recognize that our Christian faith was just as viable as theirs. Can a Mormon, off the top of his head, recall when the last Mormon was killed just because he was a Mormon? Certainly we have heard of Mormons being tragically killed while serving missions, but these cases involve circumstances other than true martyrdom (robberies, car accidents, being mistaken for CIA agents, etc). On the other hand, it is not uncommon to hear of Christians around the world who are being killed because they refuse to denounce their belief that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. While martyrdom seems to be a thing of the past for the Mormons, it is a common occurrence among those who have placed their total trust in the Jesus of the Bible.” (Bill McKeever)

5 posted on 11/15/2010 10:16:24 AM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: All; T Minus Four; restornu
All kinds of reasons existed in the minds of a great minority of residents within primarily three counties of Missourians as to why they did what they did in 1838 -- and, BTW, many opposed the Mormons without resorting to violence or vandalism. There's no 19th-century "surveys" to narrow down the reasons as you did; I'm sure w/many residents a combination of reasons accumulated for them to resort to violence & vandalism & eviction. Keep in mind also, that violence occurred on both sides -- and that usually tends to trigger vengeance violence.

Some Western MO residents...
...were ungodly and violent (Missouri had its share of hoodlums & roughians like all other states…perhaps even more than their share given the pro-slavery activities they went out of their way to do in Kansas in the 1850s…)
...didn't like it that the Mormons contributed little to the local economy as they tended to transact only with Lds businesses.
...resented potential loss of political control.

But also, Missouri residents kept hearing Joseph Smith & local Mormons talk about how Jackson Co. would become the world HQ for the Mormon church and how it would be run by its own sets of laws pertaining to the "celestial kingdom" ... For example: "And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself" (D&C 105:5, June 1834)

At that time, “Zion” = MO!!!

Consider this evidence -- testimony from 19th-century MO Judge Joseph Thorp: Their prophet also induced his followers to believe that he would form a temporal kingdom or government, and they would not be subject to the laws of the State, but should make their own laws, have their own civil officers to execute them, Joseph, the prophet, being dictator, aided by revelation and his cabinet or council; and when their edicts were sent forth they were obeyed without a murmur by his followers. Judge Joseph Thorp, Liberty Tribune, "Early Days in Missouri," October 12, 1883. No. 23.

Beyond the reasons above, some feared a physical takeover. Judge Thorp again: Their audacity and impudence in telling the citizens that it was made known to Joseph, their prophet, priest and king, from high heaven, that Jackson county was theirs -- given to them by the Lord, and it was foolishness in them to resist and fight against God; that the temple was to be built in Independence and that saints were to be gathered from the four quarters of the globe to worship the God of Israel in the New Jerusalem, as it was under the Jewish dispensation. Their idea was, it appears, that they were to establish a spiritual kingdom where the latter day saints were to congregate to worship tho God of Ancient Israel as did their fathers in the days of the prophets; they commenced preparing to build the temple, and, if I recollect, partly dug out the foundation. (same source)

(Judge Thorp also added that Their paper was filled up weekly with revelations, promising great things to the saints who were faithful, and threatening destruction to the citizens if they did not give up their lands and homes peaceably, and leave them in peaceable possession, contending that the Jew and Gentile could not live together in the same locality. Certainly, Smith put these threats into Lds "scripture" by June of 1834 that the ungodly would be hit with vengeance like a whirlwind (v. 22), god-based scourging & vexing (v. 23), the indignation of the lord (v. 24) in D&C 105. Also, as I mentioned, many were pro-slavery & identified with Southerners, whereas Lds tended to be Northerners/Easterners & were perceived as being "abolitionist" even though Smith himself uttered a D&C "scripture" where he said the Mormon gospel was off-limits to slaves minus their "master's" consent.

...And then many didn't like Independence becoming the world-wide HQ military takeover Smith was preaching as early as June of 1834: "And after these lands are purchased, I will hold the armies of Israel guiltless in taking possession of their own lands, which they have previously purchased with their own moneys, and of throwing down the towers of mine enemies that may be upon them, and scattering their watchmen, and avenging me of mine enemies unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. But first let my army become very great, and let it be sanctified before me, that it may become fair as the sun, and clear as the moon, and that her banners may be terrible unto all nations; That the kingdoms of this world may be constrained to acknowledge that the kingdom of Zion is in very deed the kingdom of our God and his Christ; therefore, let us become subject unto her laws." (D&C 105: 30-32)

Smith was even proclaiming that all nations would bow down to the Lds church in a new "scripture" established on Aug. 2, 1833: "...if Zion doing these things [build a house of the Mormon god & school + obey commandments] she shall prosper, and spread herself and become very glorious, very great, and very terrible. And the nations of the earth shall honor her, and shall say: Surely Zion is the city of our God, and surely Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place... (D&C 97:18-19)

6 posted on 11/15/2010 10:21:03 AM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Colofornian
Two other often ignored question are, How much alleged Mormon persecution was due to Saints fighting with other Saints, and How much alleged Mormon persecution was due to the Saints' own actions?

For example, the historian Hubert Bancroft lists six Mormon civil wars, some of which took place during key LDS persecutions, e.g. in Missouri from May to November 1839; in Illinois from June 1844 to January 1847; etc.

Finally, it should be noted that all of the persecutions attributed to the U.S. Army and State National Guards were in response to Saint actions. In Missouri, for example, after Joseph declared a jihad against the Gentiles; in Illinois (1844 and 1847) in response to the Second Mormon Civil War and massive counterfeiting of U.S. currency by the Mormons; in Utah (1858-59) following Brigham's prohibition of Gentiles living in Deseret, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, the Akin Massacre, the ambush of a convoy bringing supplies to Fort Bridger, etc.

7 posted on 11/15/2010 10:28:58 AM PST by Zakeet (Like the wise Wee Wee said, "We can't be broke ... we still have checks in the checkbook.")
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To: Colofornian

Considering I have nevern knocked on a Mormon’s door early Saturday morning but they have knocked on mine...


12 posted on 11/16/2010 3:42:27 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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