Are You More Blessed Than the Virgin Mary?

Desiring God ^ | 12/15/2010 | Jonathan Parnell

[count-your-change]

“I refer not to English grammar but Greek. And I do point out that in the Greek Orthodox, among Greek Catholics, among Catholic Maronites, Syriac Catholics, Chaldean Catholics etc who have their bibles in Greek or Aramaic, or related Semitic languages, the meaning is the same”

The beliefs of the above groups then are to be taken as the determinants of what koine Greek words mean???

“Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning “to fill or endow with grace.”

Or as Strong’s 5487 and most English translations and lexicons put it, “to favor”.

To expand upon what I wrote earlier:
“Your reasoning is a bit faulty here. Within the perfect tense (IN KOINE GREEK) there is no indication of the amount time past but only that the results persist into the present of the person speaking.

Mary had already found favor with God and was in favor at the time of the angel’s greeting. It says nothing about when in the past and nothing about the future.”

“To argue about a translated word from GReek to English when the original GReek speakers believe one thing is quite, well, silly.”

Then why are you??

[Cronos]

Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Grace is the working of God himself, not a created substance of any kind that can be treated like a commodity

The Church teaches that: Justification is by grace alone, through faith working in love

Individuals do not earn, deserve or merit grace and as such cannot claim it as a right.

as is said:
1. The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ" and through Baptism (Rom 3:22; cf. 6:3-4 and Rom 6:8-11 But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35

2.Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.

[Cronos]

Actually, you have it quite wrong. If you take the French translation it says L'ange entra chez elle, et dit: Je te salue, toi à qui une grâce a été faite; le Seigneur est avec toi.
And the Croatian
Gabrijel joj se ukazao i rekao: 'Zdravo, milosti puna! Gospodin s tobom!'
And the Romanian
Îngerul a intrat la ea, şi a zis: ,,Plecăciune, ţie, căreia ţi s'a făcut mare har; Domnul este cu tine, binecuvîntată eşti tu între femei!``

All indicate full of grace.

[Cronos]

Actually J, B is a Lutheran, they DO have altars and they believe that Christ is present on the Altar, and the True Presence is there in the Eucharist.

They are not like wmfights or rn or metmom's groups -- the Lutherans believe in the True Presence in the Eucharist, they have very orthodox teachings on that point.

[Cronos]

Based on your comments, your church is dark and lonely

Why would you want to go searching there CS1776? Sheesh, they have groups of one and call themselves "churches" -- or they have secret handshakes.

[Cronos]

Anything man made is null and void when it concerns the things of God.

Yup, that's why we Catholics follow the Living Word.

[Cronos]

I told you that Christ'c Church, the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church believes the following

believes in

We Believe in One Lord Jesus Christ
The Only Son of God
Eternally Begotten of the Father
God from God, Light from Light
True God from True God
Begotten, Not Made
One in Being (homoousia) with the Father
Through Him All Things Were Made

Do you believe this?

[Cronos]

Let's review what YOU said in post 264 replying to my post of Because you have seen me, you have believed

YOU said: He saw, then believed. Doesn't take anything but having one's eyes opened. Jesus doesn't say he(Matthew) was blessed at all!

So, are you saying that St. Thomas the Apostle was not blessed at all?

Are you saying that those who saw Christ and believed were/are not blessed?

[Cronos]

RnMomof7: The ark is a type of CHRIST

Metmom (reply to a different post of Rn’s): Doesn’t that make us all arks of the covenant?

Cronos: Take those two statements — now either you, M, disagree with R’s first statement or if you agree, then, your logic states that “us all” are types of Christ. Is that your logic, M?

[Quix]

Some have said that the language below
is 'merely' hyperbolic adoration.
I don't think that's what
GOD ALMIGHTY WOULD LABEL IT.
I'm convinced that
GOD ALMIGHTY
CALLS IT
BRAZEN DEMONICALLY
FACILITATED, ENCOURAGED & LED
IDOLATRY AND BLASPHEMY.
He doesn't usually mince words.
.
.
.
WERE MARY HERSELF POSTING ON FR
I BELIEVE HER DENOUNCIATIONS OF SUCH
WOULD BE MUCH MORE FIERCE THAN MINE!
.
.
.
I was involved in a house church
famous all over Southern California
for its deliverance ministry and follow-up.
Mental hospitals and pastors sent their worst cases
to us--the ones they gave up on.
By God's grace, Christ's Blood and Holy Spirit
operating in servant-hearted love through
a lot of dedicated people who opened their homes
to such folks,
many were set free--lastingly free.
.
.
.
I learned a lot in that church.
One of the things that I OBSERVED,
I see a LOT hereon.
there's a characteristic
TYPE OF RESPONSE
WHEN A PERSON AWASH
IN DEMONIC INFLUENCES
(I don't think it matters
whether they are resident
or hovering around)
GETS CHALLENGED, EXHORTED,
HAS THEIR PRIDE PRICKED.
I see a LOT of that TYPE of response, hereon.
.
.
.

Below are the examples
of exalting other deities.
They are real.
They are serious.
They are owned,
operated in,
manifested in,
heart-felt wallowed in
by millions of Roman Catholics around the world.
Pretending otherwise does not change the facts.
White washing it with magicsterical diplospeak
doesn't change the facts.
Rationalizing it with 101 weasel words
doesn't change the facts.
.
.
.

the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat's.
.
.
.

Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
--ALL HINT OF SUCH--
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.
.
.
.

ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE: .
.
.

Here's the title:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Meditations-Mysteries-Rosary-Ferraro/dp/0819801577/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272938246&sr=1-2

And it carries the official sanctions of:

ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.

WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR

Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .

Here they are:

However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.

p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .

p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.

5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.

6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.

"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor

p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence

p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18

p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"

p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]

p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]

9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]

p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]

5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]

p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."

p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"

p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."

[Cronos]

What deception -- in response to John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” This is the passage about St. Thomas of course,

YOU said in post 264

He saw, then believed. Doesn't take anything but having one's eyes opened. Jesus doesn't say he was blessed at all!

So the question for you is why are you saying that St. Thomas the Apostle was not blessed at all?

Or do you mean that you believe all those who saw and believed were not blessed?

[Cronos]

Actually, I have it on authority from two Greek speaking freepers that there are only superficial differences, also, to be more precise, both of these Freepers are biblical scholars and know Koine Greek. Ditto for the GReek Orthodox priests.

An unwarranted assumption given the rather limited vocabulary of the average American. -- on an aside, I agree with you, and it was equally bad in England when I lived there, the native kids are terrible in English. Surprisingly I think people in India, Sweden, etc. speak far better English (Indians seem to retain a lot of Victorianisms though) than many English.

[RnMomof7]

How do you understand the texts in context when the daily readings move all over the place ?

[Cronos]

Let's review:

Topic: Translation from Greek (richer, complex language) to English.

Do you know Greek? Would you know the meaning, the nuances of a word in Greek better than a person who has Greek as his/her mother tongue?

[RnMomof7]

I do not know where the post of met moms is.. but I would say that IF the Catholic belief that Mary is the ark of the covenant were accurate then I would agree with Metmom that would make all the saved arks.. because Christ lives in us ....as Jesus said

Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

[Cronos]

Sorry, that should read as

What deception? -- in response to John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” This is the passage about St. Thomas of course,

YOU said in post 264

He saw, then believed. Doesn't take anything but having one's eyes opened. Jesus doesn't say he was blessed at all!

So the question for you is why are you saying that St. Thomas the Apostle was not blessed at all?

Or do you mean that you believe all those who saw and believed were not blessed?

[RnMomof7]

Actually J, B is a Lutheran, they DO have altars and they believe that Christ is present on the Altar, and the True Presence is there in the Eucharist.

Is the physical more "real" than the spiritual?

[Quix]

.
.
.
FASCINATING, PRODDYS,
Sometimes it seems like
Rabid Clique RC's and some of the others
really do think we are as stupid, clueless and generally out to lunch
as their Maryolatry is.

However, pretending that such a post were authentic [instead of some wyrd intel probing] . . . my exhortation would be something like . . .

Ask around your social network--work, gym, classes, shop clerks, waiters . . .

1. Who are the best, most authentic, Most Biblical, wisest, most loving and kind Christians you know?

2. Do they go to a church or home group?

3. Do they love Jesus more than life itself?

4. Can I meet with them?

One might even start with an RC Charismatic group. And ask them what other Christians around town DEMONSTRATED a close walk with God?

[Quix]

INDEED:

---

To: Quix
Now that is truly hatred for God’s Word as everyone of those points clearly is in opposition to His Word.

The Catholics have their own Mary outfitted to deceive and uplift man to a god status.

Jesus is Our Savior, Jesus is King of Kings, so satan says Mary - She became Queen of Purgatory, Queen of us sinners, Thy kingdom come through Mary!,”Mary is the tree of life, ‘No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.’

‘No one can come to The Father but through Me’ - says Jesus.
The RCC as a pawn of satan - knows no bounds but his deception is known by those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

Christians/Christ’s Church has Biblical Mary, a servant of The Lord.

We know and serve OUR GOD, we know OUR SAVIOR, we will soon see our KING OF KINGS! And THE WORD always was and always will be and those not believing on THE WORD, JESUS, will not/does not have eternal life.

Thank YOU, JESUS, The Living Word!

[Quix]

Read the last line again.

It’s evidently a not too clever variety of the current standard RC intel probe seeking intel on Proddy’s personal churches.